Note: This experiment was done six months ago and initially only reported on my Swedish blog. This is a somewhat delayed translation!
What happens if you hugely digress from a low-carbohydrate diet and suddenly eat a whole load of carbs?
Here is my final report following two months of a very strict LCHF diet, and daily measurements of four parameters:
- Blood ketones (the red curve)
- Urine ketones (yellow)
- Weight (purple)
- Waistline (purple)
To get familiar with the experiment design, I recommend reading my first report. For results from the first month, have a look at my second report. Here’s the third and final one, discussing the second month.
As you can see from the above graph, I took the opportunity to conduct a side experiment. The pink vertical column marks one weekend where I conciously completely deviated from the low-carbohydrate diet. I was on the Swedish archipelago “Koster” for the year’s lobster premiere, and simply had the same food as everyone else.
So, what happens if you totally veer off the low carb lifestyle after a long period of strict LCHF? Is complete havoc wrought in your body? Do you have to start from scratch again? Here’s the answer:
Lobster weekend
Here are the non-strict LCHF foodstuffs I consumed during the weekend of 28-30th September:
- Three small helpings of pasta
- One “Digestive” biscuit
- A total of 7 slices of bread!
- Some orange juice x 2
- Some chocolate (70% cocoa content)
- Liberal helpings of nuts
- Liberal helpings of sorbet and honeymelon
- Yoghurt with müsli and apple
- An unspecified number of wine glasses (many)
- A pizza!
Result
After finishing off that pizza on my way back home on the Sunday, my ketone meter read “LOW” – that is, a negligible amount of ketones. The ketosis was gone.
I’m sure you’re curious as to how long it takes to return to ketosis after such a monumental digression. Some have claimed it can take up to two weeks, but for me, it didn’t:
- The morning after, I was at 0.3 and one day after that I was at 0.5, which means I was back in ketosis. It took a week for me to get back to my previous “optimal” levels of over 1.5.
- The scales immediately showed +2kgs (+4.5 lbs), but these vanished in a couple of days. In other words, it was all water and glycogen weight. My waistline saw little or no change at all.
- I felt alright the whole time.
Summary: An entire weekend of cheating took me a few days to a week to bounce back from. That’s of course keeping in mind I was very keto-adapted going in. I can however imagine that some people may need more time.
Weight results after two months
As mentioned in my earlier accounts, weight loss was not my ambition when starting this experiment. I was happy with my weight and waistline, which I’ve kept for years with the more liberal LCHF diet I stick to. Interestingly, I still lost a total of 4.5kgs (almost 10 pounds) and a whopping 7cms (over 2.5 inches) around my waist. This happened without the slightest hunger pang.
I had to punch a new hole in my belt. My trousers were falling off – that’s how noticeable it was. I have however kept my original weights at the gym, so I’m assuming there hasn’t been significant muscle loss. This in spite of the fact that I’ve only found time to work out about once weekly.
Lessons learned
The biggest lesson I’ve learned during these two months is how much the effects of a strict LCHF diet can be intensified when taken to optimal ketosis. Also, I’ve seen that it takes more than just great care with carbohydrate to achieve deep ketosis; in fact, you need more fat and less protein than many believe. Too much protein tends to actually inhibit optimal ketosis (a ketone level of over 1.5), instead making it easy to stall at around 0.5.
A handy way to consume more fat and less protein is to drink your coffee with butter and coconut oil (mix with a blender!). One or two mugs of this kind of “fat coffee” gets you feeling so full you won’t be eating too much meat, fish or eggs. Perhaps this brings an environmental as well as monetary saving?
What are your thoughts on these results? Is there anything you’d like to ask? Go ahead and hit me with some comments below, and I’ll do my best to answer.
More
Previous posts on ketone measurement
PS
I’ve conducted two more experiments during this time – reports are soon to come. One of them is the much awaited coffee experiment that’s been requested a lot since I posted the Pepsi Max experiment.
108 Comments
1. Carbohydrates - < than 50 grams per day.
2. Protein - 0.6 to 1.0 grams per lb. of lean mass per day.
3. Fat - 65-80% of total calories.
I think the doctor has restated this numbers throughout this site.
BTW, Dr. Phinney states that if you want to, you could be in NK for the rest of your life with no ill effects.
Source: http://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/098...
Aragon vs. Volek debate. Aragon wins:-)
Context Little prospective long-term information is available on the effect of a ketogenic diet on plasma lipoproteins in children with difficult-to-control seizures.
Objective To determine the effect in children with intractable seizures of a high-fat ketogenic diet on plasma levels of the major apolipoprotein B (apoB)–containing lipoproteins, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and very LDL (VLDL); and the major apolipoprotein A-I (apoA-I)–containing lipoprotein, high-density lipoprotein (HDL).
Design, Setting, and Patients A 6-month prospective cohort study of 141 children (mean [SD] age, 5.2 [3.8] years for 70 boys and 6.1 [4.4] years for 71 girls) with difficult-to-treat seizures who were hospitalized for initiation of a high-fat ketogenic diet and followed up as outpatients. This cohort constituted a subgroup of the 371 patients accepted into the ketogenic diet program between 1994 and 2001. A subset of the cohort was also studied after 12 (n = 59) and 24 (n = 27) months.
Intervention A ketogenic diet consisting of a high ratio of fat to carbohydrate and protein combined (4:1 [n = 102], 3.5:1 [n = 7], or 3:1 [n = 32]). After diet initiation, the calories and ratio were adjusted to maintain ideal body weight for height and maximal urinary ketosis for seizure control.
Main Outcome Measures Differences at baseline and 6-month follow-up for levels of total, VLDL, LDL, HDL, and non-HDL cholesterol; triglycerides; total apoB; and apoA-I.
Results At 6 months, the high-fat ketogenic diet significantly increased the mean plasma levels of total (58 mg/dL [1.50 mmol/L]), LDL (50 mg/dL [1.30 mmol/L]), VLDL (8 mg/dL [0.21 mmol/L]), and non-HDL cholesterol (63 mg/dL [1.63 mmol/L]) (P<.001 vs baseline for each); triglycerides (58 mg/dL [0.66 mmol/L]) (P<.001); and total apoB (49 mg/dL) (P<.001). Mean HDL cholesterol decreased significantly (P<.001), although apoA-I increased (4 mg/dL) (P = .23). Significant but less marked changes persisted in children observed after 12 and 24 months.
Conclusions A high-fat ketogenic diet produced significant increases in the atherogenic apoB–containing lipoproteins and a decrease in the antiatherogenic HDL cholesterol. Further studies are necessary to determine if such a diet adversely affects endothelial vascular function and promotes inflammation and formation of atherosclerotic lesions.
As far as I know, the standard keto diet for the children with epilepsy was complete crap (based on O6 oils, for example) and very different than the one people who read nutritional blogs use now. It was discussed many times before, I remember Dr. Emily Dean blogged about it, I am surprised you managed to miss it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2989112/
Low-carbohydrate diets and all-cause and cause-specific mortality: Two cohort Studies
"Abstract
Background
Data on the long-term association between low-carbohydrate diets and mortality are sparse.
Objective
To examine the association of low-carbohydrate diets with mortality during 26 years of follow-up in women and 20 years in men.
Design
A prospective cohort study of women and men, followed from 1980 (women) or 1986 (men) until 2006. Low-carbohydrate diets, either animal-based (emphasizing animal sources of fat and protein), or vegetable-based (emphasizing vegetable sources of fat and protein) were computed from multiple validated food frequency questionnaire assessed during follow-up.
Setting
Nurses' Health Study and Health Professionals' Follow-up Study
Participants
85,168 women (aged 34-59 years at baseline) and 44,548 men (aged 40-75 years at baseline) without heart disease, cancer, or diabetes.
Measurement
Investigator documented 12,555 deaths (2,458 cardiovascular, 5,780 cancer) in women and 8,678 deaths (2,746 cardiovascular, 2,960 cancer) in men.
Results
The overall low-carbohydrate score was associated with a modest increase in overall mortality in pooled analysis (Hazard Ratio, HR, comparing extreme deciles=1.12 (95% CI=1.01-1.24, p-trend=0.14). The animal low-carbohydrate score was associated with a higher all-cause mortality (pooled HR comparing extreme deciles=1.23, 95% CI=1.11-1.37, p-trend=0.05), cardiovascular mortality (corresponding HR=1.14, 95% CI=1.01-1.29, p-trend=0.029), and cancer mortality (corresponding HR=1.28, 95% CI 1.02-1.60, p for trend = 0.09). In contrast, a higher vegetable low-carbohydrate score was associated with lower all-cause (HR=0.80, 95% CI=0.75-0.85, p-trend<0.001) and cardiovascular mortality (HR=0.77, 95% CI=0.68-0.87, p-trend<0.001).
Limitations
Diet and lifestyle characteristics were assessed with some degree of error, however, sensitivity analyses indicated that results were not unlikely to be substantially affected by residual or confounding or an unmeasured confounder. In addition, participants were not a representative sample of the U.S. population.
Conclusion
A low-carbohydrate diet based on animal sources was associated with higher all-cause mortality in both men and women, whereas a vegetable-based low-carbohydrate diet was associated with lower all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality rates.
Primary funding source
NIH grants CA87969, HL60712, and CA95589"
"We saw a good deal of this many months ago and various bloggers dissected it, if somebody could be so kind as to track some of them down (I'm too lazy). Denise Minger's was all right and she kindly put the data into tables but maybe there is a better one. I remember some low carb chick did one that was far beyond what my talents could produce. But here goes my take...." - as you can see it was overdiscussed already couple years ago.
I hope you do not intend to throw all vegan propaganda at me .I am still traumatized after attempts to listen to that annoying nut Plantpositive three months ago.
Data in studies gets manipulated and subsequently thrashed every day. I mostly believe nowadays to the things supported and proven by my own experience. According to which, LC diet normalized my neurological disorder, moved me from asthma meds, stopped me from having flues and infections and suffer from hot flashes. In my mom's case it normalized blood pressure. You judge things you learned about from the tortured data. You want me to believe that what makes me more healthy (and thinner) approaching my death, and what normalized my mom's bp makes her more vulnerable to cardiovascular illness. You presented me with the study which "proved" the horrific results of a ketogenic diet, while I know FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE how ketosis feels, and how it works, and I saw my HDL going up, trigs down, and so forth. You position makes you look like an annoying vegetarian propagandist. I wonder why you are so inclined to misrepresent ketosis here and scare as many people as you can from seeking help from that unique remedy?
"I hope you do not intend to throw all vegan propaganda at me .I am still traumatized after attempts to listen to that annoying nut Plantpositive three months ago.
Data in studies gets manipulated and subsequently thrashed every day. I mostly believe nowadays to the things supported and proven by my own experience. According to which, LC diet normalized my neurological disorder, moved me from asthma meds, stopped me from having flues and infections and suffer from hot flashes. In my mom's case it normalized blood pressure. You judge things you learned about from the tortured data. You want me to believe that what makes me more healthy (and thinner) approaching my death, and what normalized my mom's bp makes her more vulnerable to cardiovascular illness. You presented me with the study which "proved" the horrific results of a ketogenic diet, while I know FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE how ketosis feels, and how it works, and I saw my HDL going up, trigs down, and so forth. You position makes you look like an annoying vegetarian propagandist. I wonder why you are so inclined to misrepresent ketosis here and scare as many people as you can from seeking help from that unique remedy?"
1) Calm down
2) I'm not a "vegan propagandist" as I eat dairy (full fat yogurt) and eggs. I have however given up eating meat (I just lost the taste for it a while back)
3) It's amazing how both the paleo people AND the vegans are both so furious about studies which either prove or disprove that their way of eating is correct with no middle ground.
4) Whatever works for you continue to follow it - I'm just presenting studies which show that diet is not all black or white
Anyway - enjoy your life but geez controil your hostile feelings towards people who may disagree with you
I told you I was still traumatized. I basically quit all blogs where I can be expected to read about deadly animal fat out of courtesy due to my participation in a discussion. I know that things in life are rarely black and white.
And did you know.. high fat food is probably pizza.
And did you know.. again.. it seems that a high fat animal diet make peopel smoke more, drinking alkohol and quite exercise!
They didnt eat a low carb diet, they eat a junk food diet.. overloaded with cheep fat and processed carbs.
"Do Unhealthy Meat Eaters Live Shorter Lives?"
http://www.dietdoctor.com/do-unhealthy-meat-eaters-live-shorter-lives
As Anthony Colpo said on his site (partially paraphrased) "Instead, they are studies that fall into the category of epidemiology, a field of research which without question constitutes the most useless and bullshit-filled arena in all of the modern health sciences."
"If that sounds harsh…it isn’t. I could be far more scathing, considering the immeasurable damage caused by the modern infatuation with epidemiology and the associated and widespread idiocy that insists on accepting its statistical associations as physiological fact, despite the fact that one of the most basic rules of science is association does not equal causation."
So unless you show me RCTs, STFU!
Charles, in order to answer you question accurately I would have to refresh my memory, what I would rather avoid. May be other people will share their thoughts of the Plantpositive videos for whom it didn't feel like a mental torture.
No one is stoppng you from avoiding animal fats and or proteins.
LCHF is about moderate protein. Do you think moderate or low protein is only for vegans?
If you want more optimal results eat your protein on one day and trace amounts on the next.
I have looked and looked and calculated and wonder what you think is an appropriate high fat diet and how it might differ in any signiicant way.
Are you just a provacator (In the french sense)?
Perhaps Charles you should read Denise Minger's critique of the study;
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/08/brand-spankin-new-study-are-low-carb...
Or Chris Masterjohn
http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/09/new-study-shows-that-l...
Are there any genetic (or otherwise) conditions that might make it difficult for individuals to achieve deep ketosis (blood ketones > 1.5)? Basically, I've been trying hard to get there but my blood ketones only get as high as 0.7.
Background: I'm an ultra runner. 143 Lbs, ~5-6% body fat (according to weight scale). I run 70-120 miles/week. I've been eating a high fat, low protein (less than 75-80 gms/day) and low carb (less than 40 gms/day on average). Also, I'm of south Asian heritage and was wondering whether people from certain racial backgrounds find it hard to achieve deep ketosis? Is it possible that years (35+ years) of eating a high carb diet has made it difficult for my liver to produce ketones?
thanks
-Neeraj
But I think there is another reason.. you are a ultra runner.. then you must have a very good fatoxidation capacity.. alredy!
Read about it!
http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/08/11/western-states-100-low-carb...
http://timothyallenolson.wordpress.com/
In order to utilize fats for energy, does the liver convert stored fat into ketones? Is there a energy pathway that utilizes stored fat but doesn't produce ketones? And do more ketones mean more energy?
thanks again.
-Neeraj
Ketosis is becuse of low intake of carbs that goes under your bodys emediat demand for glucose.
Then insulin get low and you get a higher lypolysis.. so you gets more circulating FFA.
And.. if you don eat that ,much carbs, then your liver does glucose from circulating amino acids and glycerol from triglycerids.
And when the FFA reach your liver, its have a full job doing glucose and use more ensyms for this purpose.. its result in that fat is only converted half ways.. then other ensyms make keton buddys of the rest.
And the liver have very little ensyms to oxidate keton bodys.. so they passes out and can be used of other cells, for ketolysis.. manly the brain and hart.. it replace a lot of glucose.
Muscle cells dont have a lot of ensyms for ketolysis.. but as they are a big part of your body, they use a lot anyway.
Soo.. ketonbydys replace glucose.. and on a high fat diet low in carbs your muscels use more fat directly in betaoxidation.
And as a ultra runner.. you must have a high reliance on betaoxidation.. so you probably alredy have this.. and then not so dependant on ketolysis?
There is a state there always everyone get high keton levels.. and this is cald post exercise ketosis.. its becuse of high levels of FFA and that one used a lot of glucose in the exercise.
Then your body trys to restore your glycogen depoes, and spare all glucose it can using keton bodys insted.
Soo.. if you are a healty person.. and training a lot.. dont bother taht much of keton levels.
You can always eat less carbs and protein, and more fat.. but I think this are going to affect your traning?
Make a big differens betwen a healty traning person, and an obese one, that have to try anything to lose weigt.
It is the little changes that make the biggest changes.
Many thanks for sharing!
As I explained in a lot of answers befor.. dairys is a solution for calfs to grow and put on weight.
And some people that have truble to lose weight is very sensitive about anything that could stop taking energy from fat stores.
Soo.. whats the problem with dairys.. its a special solution that is very insulinogetic.. the proteins riseses insulin, the laktos rises insulin.. and make ones body to store the fat.
So if one is sensitive on insulin levels, it could make your body stop using your fat stores as fuel.
But.. to the question on dairys as food.. they are healty.. but could have some side effects.. fore those how is sensitive!
And as you should understand.. Doc is not that sensitive, but even he get the effect that lower his ketosis.
Soo.. if one use dairys, one should use the fatyes one can find.. becuse the fatyer the less one use.. for satiety and less anti ketogenic effect.. if one need to be strickt on this!
So there is no problem with heavy cream.. its good and taste good but could put you out of ketosis, or lower your ability to get fuel frome your stored fat.. but its better then low fat.. how often is worse.. thats what its all about!
Some days i have over 1 cup of heavy cream + Butter + Sour Cream + Coconut oil
That is why the above article is an important point of measure, measure, measure!
Measure your blood ketones for 10 days or more and periodicallly revisit this. Measure your blood glucose. Measure your urine ketones
Measure lipids and HgbA1c
Measure measure measure
Yes if you read the medical literature and visit the websites about NK for children with epilepsy you will read that heavy cream is a main ingredient in these typical 87 to 90 percent fat diets.
Important to find out if your source of heavy cream is 36 or 40 percent fat for kids on these diets. So===>; I would say if cream is a staple then check your source and calculate accordingly. MCT such as those found in coconut oil and to a lesser degree heavy cream are a source of ketones as they go through the body and bypass some of the paths that other fats go through. Hence coconut oil is true brain food as well as cream.
http://www.sugaraholics.com
http://highfatlowcarbrecipes.wordpress.com
This metod supose to be wihout starving regime!
Soo.. start eating.. start to learn about your own buildt in calorie counter.. its cald apetite!
And as you is older, then go for minimum 1 gram/Kilo of protein.. think its about 0,5gram/pound.. never go under it!
My question is regarding ketosis: is there a daily menu to be followed to help people that wants to achieve ketosis state?
I'm feeling a little lost with type and quantity of food to eat to reach the optimal ketosis. My intent with ketosis is reduce % of body fat. Am I rigth of trying ketosis to change body composition?
Thanks!
Try to get some inspiration here.. there are others on the internet!
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/lowcarbmenus1/Low_Carb_Menus.htm
My name is Mervin and I'm from British Columbia Canada.
I recently started the LCHF diet and haven't felt so good in a long time .
My blood sugar is under control and have no panic for food in the morning .
No shaky blood sugar issues as this LCHF diet has BLOOD SUGAR under control.
After going to the doctor again and again thinking I have beginnings of Diabetes
only to be sent home by Doctor saying everything is OK with blood sugar but truly not feeling well at all ,
At the start of LCHF diet my total chol was 5.6 my LDL was 3.7 and HDL was 1.4 and triglyceride was 1.1 and chol/HDL risk ratio was 4.0.
Now after two months of strict LCHF my chol/levels are total chol/ 6.29 my LDL chol/ 4.31 and my HDL chol/ 1.74 and my chol/HDL risk ratio is 3.61 and triglycerides are now 0.53
I am wondering if you think this is satisfactory or is there still room for improvement.
sincerely Mervin Smith
But thats in your past anyhow.. as you found a new way of eating that make you feel fine!
Its a typical low carb reaction on lipids, stating that you probably is healty!
Total goes up slightly.. part of it is HDL, LDL often gets bigger.. it looks as they get more but thats often a flaw in the measuring metod used.. your triglycerids get the half.. thats altso a good sign!
My humble opinion is that you are healty.. and eating a healty diet!
I'm a newbie, lost 9 lbs so far in 64the days. That doesnt seem like much but only recently
discovered to up my fat intake.
Thanks for a reply!
thanks
Try egg milk altso!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KszZmfOx85g
My only concern is my doctor. When I visit him in March 2014, and my LDL is higher he will certainly increase the my cholesterol dosage. He is not very cooperative when it come to trying new a scientifically proven ideas. If this happens what can I do please advise.
Thanks Lee.
Send him this link!
http://www.docsopinion.com/2013/12/15/10-pitfalls-of-using-ldl-choles...
The cholesterol ratio can be expressed as the ratio of the total cholesterol to HDL cholesterol. This can be done by dividing the total cholesterol value by the HDL cholesterol value. The aim is to keep the ratio below 4:1 (or quotient of 4).
Fat is very high in energy and its enough to eat real food, not be scared of fat, frying in butter and coconut oil and sprinkel som olive oil on sallads!
I did skip the breakfast instead.. and eats lunch.
At home on weekends I do make breakfast.. but I do it at lunchtime and then I use coconut oil for frying!
I came to that soultion that its better for me to use coconut oil in coocking, then I get a regular meal pattern.
I read nothing in her comment that needed you to tell her to "calm down." She was simply countering what you had to say. YOU however seem a little defensive.
no alcohol: I have read that on occasion you can embibe with a little spirits; whisky, vodka, etc
no family dinner: Do they not support you? Can you find out what is being served for the family dinner and supplement your plate with some other foods you can eat? or if it's you who is supplying the family dinner, well, heck that one is easy.
no restaurants: Sure you can. Get a burger no bun, no fries. Get a steak and ask them to add a butter glaze. Get a side of veggies and make sure they serve REAL butter for you to use on them. Most restaurants cater to their diners needs. Just ask.
One thing I have found helpful is to plan your menu in advance. Find out what restaurant you and your friends or family are going to and see if they have a menu online.
Some of the hardest restaurants to find low carb in, I have.... (because dangit, I love eating out)
Italian restaurants - I'd be surprised if they didn't have a Ceasar salad on the menu that you could add chicken or shrimp to.
Mexican restaurants - get fajitas. What you have there is meat (chicken, beef, shrimp) and veggies!
If you didn't get enough to eat while dining out, make some "fat bombs" at home and pop a couple to get you through until morning.
There are ways to "work it," you just have to want it bad enough.
........But my weight stopped going down. I am now at 73kgs, on high carb diet previous years I came to 66kgs.
Should I target 1,5-3,0 with higher carb intake? Oh and I'n doing intermittent fasting too.
I know this is an old topic, but you mention coconut oil in your coffee. I wondered.. If fasting is a problem, would you recommend using coconut oil a few times a day (in coffee, or just as is) and nothing else? This would provide energy with the least possible raise in insuline. What is your view ... would it be healthy?
I wonder too if you could keep this up for days on end. That would put the body in ketosis!
Thank you for your reply.
8 oz coffee
1 tablespoon butter
1 tablespoon coconut oil
Put in blender and blend until frothy (emulsified). It will look like you put cream in it (cafe au lait colored) and it tastes delicious.
You cannot emulsify it with a spoon- you must use a blender, any type is fine. You can make as much as you want and refrigerate it to drink later. You can use less oil and butter (i.e. one teaspoon each). Google "bulletproof coffee" for more information. Hope this helps.