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  1. Tor H
    How about adding another graph showing dietitians too?
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  2. Vicente
    Meat consumption map.

    I eat meat. I have nothing against meat, but we shouldn't use observational data as a proof.

    I also think sugary sodas are not the real culprit of obesity/diabetes. Bad dietitians and the advice from people like Marion Nestle and Yoni Freedhoff are the actual culprits.

    Replies: #5, #14
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  1. Tor H
    How about adding another graph showing dietitians too?
  2. Vicente
    Meat consumption map.

    I eat meat. I have nothing against meat, but we shouldn't use observational data as a proof.

    I also think sugary sodas are not the real culprit of obesity/diabetes. Bad dietitians and the advice from people like Marion Nestle and Yoni Freedhoff are the actual culprits.

    Replies: #5, #14
  3. Chris the Barbarian
    Sugary Sodas are not the real culprit? Yeah, it must be pure coincidence that so many obese people drink it daily.
    Reply: #4
  4. Vicente
    Please, read my comment before attacking me.

    I said "the real" culprit. People drink sodas because they are told all that matters are calories. "Sodas can be part of your diet in moderation", right?

    In my opinion, and I have the right to have an opinion, the actual culprits are those people that talk about "energy balance" or those who say that all the diets work for weight loss and the important thing is adherence. Sodas are part of the problem but, in my opinion, the problem is created by people giving the wrong advice, people like Nestle and Freedhoff.

    You have a different opinion. I can live with that. I really don't care.

  5. bill
    Well done, Vicente!

    This has just become another run-
    of-the-mill diet website.

    It used to be LCHF.

    Replies: #7, #12
  6. Nate
    Vincente, thanks for the meat map. It shows how complicated nutritional science is. Not only are our metabolisms complicated, everyone is different. Any good nutritional trial will have variations in results with the A to Z Diet Study being a great example. And of course various interest groups, especially those that stand to make money off of a study's results, will push the conversation towards their favorite position. Yes, it is complicated for many reasons.

    However, I have confidence that science will rediscover what healthy diets actually are. Please note that I wrote diets, as I think there are many healthy diets. I mean we evolved to be the creature that occupies the whole world and did so without any nutritionist or dietitians and, unfortunately, by sending many large mammals into extinction.

  7. Nate
    Opps, this is a comment for both Bill and Vincente. The Diet Doctor does not say that the maps show causation. DD specifically asks a question. Are they a coincidence? That is how observational data should be used. It should guide our formation of good questions that can be answered with good scientific trials.

    Yes, DD does think that there is enough good science to show that HCLF can be a problem for many. That is why they sarcastically ask if Coca-Cola knew the answer to their question. Who by the way does not think the correlation warrants the need to ask the question do sodas cause obesity.

    DD has many different websites on their blog news page. Many of these represent bloggers who have different to very different views about LCHF. That is good science. Good science requires looking for information that can disprove your theory. I do not think that DD is just another diet blog.

    Having said that I can't find it in me to look at the many vegans blogs. And, yet I don't understand their statement that intramuscular fat causes insulin resistance. So, has anyone researched that statement? Is there any validity to it?

    Reply: #10
  8. Apicius
    Has anyone who frequents this website and blog conducted a study on the rising obesity and diabetes rates in prison populations? Since incarcerated people are fed meals created by "expert" nutritionists, it would be interesting to analyze the data. Especially since the prisoners are fed the typical modern high carb nutrition and don't have the ability to get whatever food they want to eat like normal people.

    Here's an example article describing the rising obesity rates in a prison population: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/274901015_The_Impact_of_Incar...

  9. Pierre
    In my opinion Vivente is going off the chart.

    You really think people consult nutritional guide line or are even aware of its existence?

    Go on the street and ask people what is a calorie for fun ( fat, protein and sugar), you will be lucky if you get more than 1% good answers.

    People are not giving wrong advice, they listen their brain telling them to feed on sugary food and grains.

    Food industries are taking advantage of this by selling them what they want to consume.
    Sugary crap!

    Just for fun :

    One in four Americans unaware that Earth circles Sun.

    Do you think the follow nutritional advices?


    Replies: #11, #21
  10. Vicente
    Hi Nate,
    don't get me wrong. I am sure sodas are part of the problem. For people who still think about calories, I would say there is some evidence that our brains don't register liquid sugar as ingested calories, and therefore sodas make us ingest more calories.

    But I don't believe in the energy balance theory. In my opinion, sugary sodas create the conditions (hormonal and in your liver) that make you obese and diabetic. It's not about calories, in my opinion, it's about metabolic stimuli and metabolic status.

    My comment was NOT an attack to DD. Four days ago he said that this quote from Marion Nestle was silly: "I don’t think the kind of milk or milk at all matters if the overall diet is reasonable. Everything in moderation."

    I wouldn't dare to say he agrees with me (I don't know if he does), but I agree with him: I don't like the "everything in moderation" message. I think it harms people's health.

    A couple of days ago, in a comment, Tom Naughton said: gun's don't kill people, dietitians do.

    Reply: #22
  11. Apicius
    While I agree that there is a lacklustre level of intelligence out there in the public, I'm not convinced that the elevated sugar and low fat eating is purely driven by personal food choices. Within seconds of walking into a grocery store, I am facing labels stating "heart healthy low fat", "low in cholesterol" and "no saturated fat". Some really bad foods are also endorsed by "expert" organizations.

    I was recently sitting in business class seat on a flight, surrounded by affluent executives and rich people...which I consider to be a bit more educated and have access to more money/info than the norm. The flight attendant gave me a menu for me to choose from, and I noticed that there was one item that said "healthy meal option". I asked him what it was, and it turned out to be oatmeal (with added sugar), low fat yogurt (with lots of sugar), a multigrain muffin (containing sugar and margarine), a piece of low fat cheese, a glass of skim milk and a glass of orange juice. And you know what? People in the business class section around me picked "the healthy option". While I instead enjoyed the "real" healthy option, which was egg and cheese omelette, with pork sausages, where I smothered them all with butter, and then washed it all down with a cup of coffee that had extra servings of cream!

    The public is continuously bombarded with "low fat", "healthy whole grain" and "low calorie" marketing that it manages to permeate all the segments of society, like rich versus poor and educated versus uneducated.

    Reply: #17
  12. Vicente
    Hi bill,
    I don't think Andreas is changing his message. But obviously regarding a few topics I don't see things exactly the way he does. And neither do you. But that's good.
  13. Apicius
    Dr Eenfeldt,

    Can you do a news blog on the recent article this month in the Journal of Obesity, which showed prisoners are getting fatter, despite the "expert" nutrition guidelines? I think the data is very telling. Much more telling than these maps.

    Here's a link to the US federal bureau of prisons state-sanctioned menu:
    This menu is a carb and synthetic oils nightmare! No wonder they are getting fatter!

    Reply: #16
  14. Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, MD Team Diet Doctor

    ...we shouldn't use observational data as a proof.

    Of course not. As I said in the post this graph could easily be a coincidence. Even if I happen to think it's not.

    Replies: #15, #18
  15. Vicente
    Hi Andreas,
    I didn't say you did.

    But may be not all your readers are aware of how weak observational data is as a proof of cause-effect relationships. Moreover, the title "Graph of the year" could give a false impression of consistency as a proof.

  16. Bjarte Bakke Team Diet Doctor
    Do you have the link to the article?
    Reply: #24
  17. Bjarte Bakke Team Diet Doctor
    Nice story. Rich = healthy for sure isn't a true statement. Next time you fly on business class, adjust your expectations. ;)
  18. Pierre
    They used to say the same thing with tobacco.

    Actually the soda industries are using the same arguments as the tobacco companies.

    But the correlation between lung cancer and tobacco consumption was so strong that it was impossible to justified the observational data by chance.

    Sugary drink consumption is related to obesity.

  19. chris c
    How much of the meat is actually eaten WITH the bun, and french fries, and washed down with the Coke?
  20. BobM
    Pierre, absolutely people know and follow the guidelines in the US. First, school lunches are REQUIRED to follow it. So, my daughter can get sugary, chocolate, non-fat milk at school, but CANNOT get full fat milk. Everything they serve is low in fat and high in carbs.

    I know many people who have switched their children to non-fat milk once the children turned 2. Why? It's in the guidelines. Also, try to find full fat yoghurt in the store. Now, assuming you found that, how many non-fat (and very high sugar) yoghurts do you see? I'd estimate 99% of my store's yogurt isle is non-fat and high sugar.

    Last Thanksgiving, I made rolls that had somewhere near 1/2 tablespoon of butter per roll. People were freaking out. They apparently thought that was too much fat (whereas I'm more concerned about carbs and wheat and now no longer eat wheat).

    I ran into a family while I was looking through a store. I overheard the dad multiple times complain to his wife that all she bought was low fat stuff, even low fat cheese. And I think this is the norm. (Meanwhile, I was buying the highest fat stuff possible.)

    Consumers do follow the guidelines. (I know; I was one of them.)

    Reply: #27
  21. Nate
    Thanks for the reply Vicente. And yes I agree with you about that 'eat in moderation' slogan. When I read that my mind screams, 'what does that mean?' Some times it screams so loud in there, that it comes out of my mouth.
    Reply: #26
  22. Nate
    Vegans often make the statement that intramuscular fat causes insulin resistance. Has anyone researched that statement? Is there any validity to it? I think it comes from a study by Dr. Barnand.
  23. Bjarte Bakke Team Diet Doctor
    Prison studies are interesting, thanks for sharing. Not sure if we'll write about it since it's a few months old now, but I'll add it to our "possible" list.
  24. Bjarte Bakke Team Diet Doctor
    The "everything in moderation" comment annoys me to the core. Seriously, I just can't help my frustration when I hear it. What are some of your favourite replies to such comments?
  25. Pierre
    "Consumers do follow the guidelines"

    They simply follow advertising.

    When you are bombarder daily with ads then you become brainwashed and conditioned to buy these products. It is called marketing.

    If you consult guideline, you will notice they give how many calories and quantities you should consume (page 78)


    So if people were aware of the guideline they would not overeat and would not be obese.

  26. Nora

    I live in Canada, which is a country of new immigrants. Many of the people buy the sugary foods to be "North American" as well as adults bowing to the pressure of their children. TV commercials during children's TV time are very compelling.

    Do Canadians follow the guidlines. Not really, except perhaps educators (drs. teachers, etc.). Do they know quidelines exist? Maybe half.

    The guidelines are difficult to fit into ethnic diets. There is no real Canadian diet, just a combobulation of all sorts of ethnic dishes. Our plate and portion sizes are distinctly smaller than in the US, and we do have less of an obesity problem (though it is quite present, just less).

    I doubt if most people care if there are government guidelines.

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