Low carb bread: Another fairy tale bites the dust

Fake LC Bread

The market is full of unlikely claims about low carb versions of bread, pasta and chocolate. I see no reason to take these marketing claims at face value. Like the debacle with Dreamfields fraudulent “low carb” pasta shows, these claims do not necessarily have anything to do with reality.

Next up for testing: Julian Bakery’s delicious Smart Carb bread.

The marketing

Interestingly the Smart Carb #1 bread is baked on whole grains, yet it is claimed that only 1 gram out of 13 grams of carbs are digested. Sound familiar?

Julian Bakery

The words “Net carb” on the packaging is enough to make me suspicious. “Net carb” usually means that someone is trying to sell you stuff by telling you a fairy tale.

Is Julian Bakery’s bread an exception?

Jimmy Moore’s n=1 experiments

Jimmy Moore took the challenge and tested the bread in different ways. Not surprisingly his blood sugar went straight up, even though he ate the bread with coconut fat and cheese.

Like the decent man he is, mr Moore allowed a marketing guy from Julian Bakery to respond. Amazingly that guy blamed the cheese, and claimed that the minimal amount of lactose was the problem. Their bread couldn’t be the reason. That sounds a bit… unlikely.

Anyway, Jimmy Moore did a new test, eating only the bread and nothing else. This is the result on his blood sugar:

BreadGraph1Bread

Without the cheese the effect of the “Smart carb” bread was even more drastic… exactly the way usual bread acts.

Smart Carb bread FAIL

This is just another confirmation of what should be obvious. If it looks like bread, feels like bread and tastes like bread, that means it is bread. Bread made from grains turns into glucose in your gut, raises your blood sugar and can lead to weight gain.

Lots of people still want to believe that they can eat “Low Carb” bread without the problems of other bread. They will say that experiments by one man proves nothing, that everybody has to test every new product for themselves to see.

To that I say: bollocks. Test for yourself, sure, why not. But if you blindly believe in the “Net Carb” marketing that means you’re living in fantasy land. If you keep having a weight problem it may be time for a reality check.

Better health and weight loss is achieved by eating real food low carb. Not by eating fake LC products.

More

The Dreamfields Pasta Fraud

The problem with low carb in America

The Swedish Diet… Not

LCHF for beginners

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203 comments

  1. Katy
    @Julian Bakey, a rise of "only" 30 points in 15 minutes is not minimal. The drop after indicates that your insulin output rose in response to the sugar spike and knocked it down. The fiber would not have had any significant effect in the short time that this occurred. You are one who is failing to understand and are clearly confused. Also, a number of your other health claims on your website are simply inaccurate. Perhaps you should stick to making bread for those who want it and leave the nutrition information to others.
  2. Katy
    And now on the Julian Bakey website there is this disclaimer:

    "We have found from our customers that the vast majority who have blood sugar issues can eat our Smart Carb breads, but we ask that you test your blood sugar levels before eating one slice (with protein & no sugar) and then again two hours after eating the one slice (with protein & no sugar). This will determine if this bread is right for you."

    Whatever happened to the demand that the bread MUST be eaten alone, hmmm? You devise yet another methodology for testing after accusing Jimmy of conducting an uncontrolled test that included cheese? You mitigate the blood sugar rise with protein and don't test for two hours! As Anne #3 stated, this timeframe would totally bypass any spike. And once again, most people who are going to eat bread would probably eat two slices, especially if they were having a sandwich. One slice with 13 grams of carb and added protein might not cause a significant rise in BG, but then, an ordinary slice of grocery store bread with 13 grams of carb per slice and additional protein probably wouldn't either!

  3. Kärnfrisk
    Julian Bakery
    Are you for real? How do you come to the conclusion that a 30 points jump in BG isn't a spike? You should be very careful with accusations on others for not knowing what they are talking about. As Katy writes, you make breads. Be happy with that and skip all your fake health claims. They are in fact quite ridiculous.

    We have a saying in Sweden: Don´t throw stones in a glass house.

  4. Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, MD Team Diet Doctor
    Julian Bakery,

    So I finished testing myself today eating our Smart Carb # 1 bread and I got great results...

    99 BG 11:35AM (Started in fasted state had not eaten in 4 hrs)
    ...
    133 BG 12:05PM
    ...
    71 BG 12:56PM

    Really? Your own blood sugar response is very much like Jimmy Moore's, a typical result of a significant amount of rapidly absorbed carbohydrates. Your own test proves nicely that there is much more than 1 gram of "Net Carbs" in your bread, i.e. your marketing claims are clearly untrue.

    Basically you just proved Jimmy Moore's point for him. That you do not even understand this yourself is mindboggling.

    Jimmy,... We never meant to offend you and apologize if we did... You should be ashamed of how you treat us... my bg results are proof enough you do not know what your talking about.

    Nice of you to apologize. Unfortunately I'd say you now owe mr Moore two more apologies.

  5. LowCarbGal
    I think it was very brave of Jimmy to test his reaction to that brand of bread. After all, Julian Bakery was an advertiser of Jimmy's. Obviously, Jimmy has lost that account. So, his test really shows that he rather seek the truth than make a dishonest buck. So, I commend Jimmy for his actions.

    But, now I have a touchy request for Jimmy. I suspect that a certain new-ish protein bar that claims to be only a few net carbs may actually be another BG spiker. They are delicious bars and I truly hope this isn't the case. Jimmy, would you consider doing a test on them? I don't want to state the brand name, but I'm sure you know the one to which I'm referring.

    Thanks Jimmy & the Doc for defending truth.

  6. You can see a full list of my upcoming n=1 experiments on the "n=1" page at the top of my blog: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/n1
  7. LowCarbGal
    Thank you, Jimmy! You are a hero.
  8. THANKS LCG! Just trying to make sure these companies who are catering to the low-carb community are being honest about their products.
  9. Beth
    LowCarbGal, you may interested in reading this review of the bars that I believe you are referring to. I was curious about the accuracy of their net carb claims myself, so I did a little research. This reviewer writes, "I have checked my blood glucose after eating them, and there is no rise in blood sugar." Of course, we don't know the method of her testing. So, I'm looking forward to Jimmy's tests ... wish he could do it sooner that Feb 2012, but I guess the guy ought to be permitted to live his life, eh? ;o)

    http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/products/gr/Product-Review-Quest-Pro...

    p.s. All the best to you and your wife, Jimmy, on the adoption. There is a soul in Heaven soon to be blessed.

  10. THANKS Beth! I had a TON of people asking me to do these other products, so that's why they're going first. And more than once a month testing is a bit too much. It'll be here soon enough.
  11. David
    @Julian Bakey, what does your claim that "Smart Carb bread is approved by all low carb diets" mean? Approved by whom?

    Furthermore, do you have any evidence for this claim in Ricky's blog post entitled "Julian Bakery: Cutting The (Unhealthy) Fat From Nutrition":

    "Saturated fats, found in red meats, contribute to raising your LDL and lowering your HDL. Saturated fats are also known to cause insulin resistance (Refer to our Hormone post), increasing unwanted fat storage."

    Who is Ricky and what are his credentials?

  12. Margaretrc
    I, too would be interested in Ricky's credentials. He has it wrong on saturated fats. "Saturated fats, found in red meats, contribute to raising your LDL and lowering your HDL. Saturated fats are also known to cause insulin resistance (Refer to our Hormone post), increasing unwanted fat storage." The only sat fats that do that are trans fats/hydrogenated frankenfats, and they are not found in red meat. Natural sat. fats like those found in red meats raise HDL and LDL, but the LDL is the big flat fluffy harmless kind. And the fats that increase insulin resistant are the ones the liver makes out of fructose and stores there, NOT the ones we eat in our meat!

    I really wish people would stop with the 'sat fat is unhealthy" nonsense--it's getting very tiresome. And I know it is not you, David. You were quoting (and challenging) someone on Julian Bakery's site(?).

  13. Hey, Andreas and Jimmy!

    Wow, what an interesting conversation! I won't add a bunch to it, except to say that the testing results you both have published make me ask the question: WHY in the world did we ("we" as a group of low carbers - I am definitely not pointing fingers!) allow ourselves to believe this type of marketing without individually checking it out? Even though I haven't tried the bread or the pasta, there are other products (hello Atkins shakes and bars!) that I have occasionally used for some time without actually doing a test myself.

    Although I have pretty much given up all Atkins products in the past few months, I will be eagerly looking forward to your testing, Jimmy, and if I ever decide to use them myself again, I'll do the testing I **should** have been doing all along, before deciding they're OK for me.

  14. That's been my primary modus operandi, Georgene--get people to test. It's high time we hold the companies marketing foods to the low-carb community to some level of integrity and standards. It's not really about any individual company despite the claims by Heath from Julian Bakery.
  15. DeniseT
    I can't speak for all of the Atkins products, but I found that the one bar that I did test jumped me by about 15 points.
    Given that a diet coke makes me jump 5 points, and sugar-free gum 10 points, I see the 15 points as a reasonable amount for an OCCASIONAL treat.
  16. Nate
    I can't believe this. I won't be purchasing that bread anymore for regular meals, only for special occasions. For it to be $8 a loaf there should not be any blood sugar spikes. This could be harmful to diabetics who use this product.
  17. Greg
    Jimmy, have you decided what Atkins bars to test? I hope you test the older peanut butter chocolate bars, because I don't think there's much mystery with all the newer ones that are loaded with maltitol, like the cookie dough ones or the chocolate peanut nut rolls...they're just like any other sugar alcohol-loaded product, and if you're sensitive to one you're probably sensitive to all. But the original ones have glycerine and some other stuff in there and very little maltitol, and for me anyway don't cause me to want to eat the whole box. I largely stay away from them anyway, but they seem less problematic. Anyway, there's my two cents.
  18. We'll see what's available in my area.
  19. Hello fellow low carb dieters,

    I was just told about this thread and noticed that my credentials were in question so I thought that warranted a response from me personally. Reading through some of these ridiculous posts makes me somewhat hesitant to get involved. However you asked about me, so I will tell you about me. I graduated with a BS in Human Nutrition in 07 from a top 25 Nutrition program. Upon graduation I worked with one of the worlds finest Pancreatologists studying enzyme production, pancreatitis and its treatments, as well as certain vitamin deficiencies. I have had multiple research papers published as a co-author, and am still waiting as a couple more are still in the cue.

    Now that's settled, let's set the record straight on saturated fats, as our information is clearly conflicting. Practically every certified medical, heart-health, and governmental authority recognizes that saturated fats contribute to raising your LDL, and advises the fact that high levels of this dangerous cholesterol contributes to cardiovascular disease and the risk of heart attack. Over 80% of every study ever done on saturated fats and cardiovascular disease agrees that substituting unsaturated fats lowers the risk. Furthermore, cardiovascular disease is absolutely no joke! This disease kills more people than cancer every year, and continues to be on the rise. If you're jumping on the high saturated fat train, you're on a slow train to some painful chest aches and possibly a lot worse. Here are some great links to supply evidence of what I am saying:

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-...

    http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/PreventionTreatm...

    Here are a couple articles, one pubmed study discussing the effect of Saturated Fat on insulin sensitivity. Ironically enough for the many Swedish readers of this site, this is a popular Swedish study:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11317662

    Reiterating the last article:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12867692/ns/health-fitness/t/more-reasons...

    Furthermore, I have NEVER, with the exception of a handful of blogs, read anything accepted by the medical world stating anything positive about saturated fats. Maybe a few inconclusive studies, or some that state it doesn't affect you one way or another, but nothing that has given me the idea that eating saturated fat is worth the risk. I personally like the low carb theory that eating fats instead of carbs will influence your body to produce fat burning chemicals, however I tell people all the time that your best bet is to stick with unsaturated fats.

    Now, about Julian Breads. We have been working hard and compiling a lot of data, which I will be slow releasing to our blog throughout the next 6 months or so (Why climax early when you can ride the wave?). The preliminary results seem to be that about 80% of Diabetics seem to have minimal or even NO spike! Like Jimmy mentioned, you HAVE to be aware of your own reactions to ANYTHING, so maybe Julian Bread doesn't work for you, but there is an 80% chance it does! However, for those of you who are really spiking, I have been trying to figure out what it is that is causing the spike. I have a theory that Heath doesn't agree with that it may be the Whey Protein Isolate that is being transferred to BG in cases where BG levels are low at the time of eating the bread. Unfortunately, unlike my previous position, we do not have tons of NIH and other grant money to provide for some awesome lab work and data, but we are doing what we can to get as much information from Diabetics in the most controlled and professional way possible with the resources we have. We have teamed up with DexCom, currently recognized as the most accurate BG meter on the market, as well as with multiple Diabetic Doctors, including one who is VERY well known in Diabetes Research. You guys keep giving Heath crap for not releasing this information fast enough, but the reality is, we want to make sure we do this right, and not rush what could be vital data regarding our bread (one way or another). Here is the link to the first released dexcom data from a diabetic who did not even take insulin medication before eating our bread:

    http://julianbakery.com/type-1-diabetic-results-after-eating-smart-ca...

    Furthermore, to straighten out all of the confusion on this thread regarding BG levels, on the above link you will see the link to the American Diabetes Association's levels of acceptable BG spikes for both Diabetics and non Diabetics.

    Lastly, I refuse to get into the immature mumbo-jumbo of this thread. Reply with respect, professionalism, a positive tone, and an education, or don't reply at all. Thank you.

    Ricky

  20. Hey, Andreas! You got that? Ricky is now setting the rules for how people are going to post....on YOUR blog!
  21. Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, MD Team Diet Doctor
    Ricky,
    The old belief that natural saturated fats are bad for us has been shown to be a mistake, and ever more doctors and authorities are starting to understand that.

    No high quality trial (RCT) has ever managed to prove that eating less fat or less saturated fat protects against heart disease or premature death. Please show me wrong by posting a single one.

    The biggest ever by far (50.000 participants) is the Women's Health Initiative. Total failure. Participants with heart disease even got significantly MORE heart disease (26% increase) by reducing their fat intake.

    Regarding blood glucose, you are moving the goal post. Considering a blood glucose of 180 (!) acceptable when eating your so-called low carb bread is silly. Most diabetics can eat real bread and stay under that. I'm sure they can eat your bread too.

  22. Doc,

    "The old belief that natural saturated fats are bad for us is has been shown to be a mistake, and ever more doctors and authorities are starting to understand that."

    This is simply not true, nor supported with any evidence. All of the links I have provided are relatively recent. In fact that American Heart Association link was updated just last month.

    "No high quality trial (RCT) has ever managed to prove that eating less fat or less saturated fat protects against heart disease or premature death."
    This is not true either, you asked for a single one, here it is:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21735388
    and another:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21727918

    PubMed, ever heard of it? PubMed is loaded with studies that prove that Saturated Fats increase hypertension and risk of cardiovascular disease.

    In terms of the WHI study you referenced, you must not have read the same one I just read with just under 49,000 women that completely backs everything I just said:
    http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/feb2006/nhlbi-07.htm

    A few notable quotes from the study you just used as an example:

    'While the participants’ overall change in LDL “bad” cholesterol was small, we saw trends towards greater reductions in cholesterol and heart disease risk in women eating less saturated and trans fat,” said Jacques Rossouw, M.D., WHI project officer.'

    'The study also found that following a high-carbohydrate, low-fat eating pattern does not increase body weight, triglycerides or indicators of increased risk of diabetes such as blood glucose or insulin levels in women.'

    “Study data indicate that women who started with the highest fat intake and who had greater changes in fat intake, show stronger evidence for reduction in their risk of breast cancer." - Leslie G. Ford, M.D., National Cancer Institute.

    Here is a Harvard response to that WHI study, which states '...it would be a serious mistake to use these new findings as reason to load up on sausage, butter, and deep-fried fast food.'
    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/nutrition-news/low-fat/

    It's going to take a lot more than an inconclusive study to convince me that Sat Fats don't put you on the heart attack train.

    Also, I didn't "move the goal post" I simply quoted the American Diabetes Association's levels of acceptable BG spikes. You can take what you want from that. Regardless, if you have a sandwich with Julian Bread and your BG stays under 180, then you are officially in the typical range of postprandial plasma glucose, according to the ADA, and that is a fact.

  23. I actually don't doubt that postprandial plasma glucose <180 is acceptable according to the ADA...no, sorry, "typical."

    So you are saying that "typical" = safe? THAT is the problem. A 179 glucose reading would scare me to death, and issues begin to arise when glucose levels are at or above 150 for any significant time.

    I guess what you consider to be okay (along with the ADA) is what is at issue here, then. I do not have access to research and don't have the background to slice them appropriately (I am a CPA, not a statistician), but here's a quote that caught my eye:

    "Research conducted with human patients, mice, and pancreas beta cell cultures all point to a single threshold at which elevated blood sugars cause permanent damage to your body. What is that level?

    140 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/L) after meals"

    This is from Blood Sugar 101, but I didn't go looking for her numbers. I just googled and came up with this. I do remember that Dr. Bernstein recommends a STEADY glucose between 85 and 95 ALL the time in order to have the best outcomes. But I suppose he doesn't know anything about blood sugars, does he? :-)

  24. gharkness,

    There is no doubt that you are right about 179 being high. I quoted the ADA to set some type of standard on this thread, because until now, there was none. You are also correct about 140 as a standard target to stay under after a meal. The American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists recommends that blood sugar should not be allowed to rise above 140 mg/dl two hours after a meal. Now read what you just wrote, and then check out the results from both Heath and our DexCom guy's blood glucose tests. Both in the 130 range. To take it a step further, even in Jimmy Moore's original experiments with our breads, the highest spike stayed in the 125-132 range.

    In terms of Dr. Bernstein, I believe his actual belief is to keep an AVERAGE glucose between 85-95. Those are low levels and most people without Diabetes have fasting levels in that range.

  25. Margaretrc
    @Ricky, 'While the participants’ overall change in LDL “bad” cholesterol was small, we saw trends towards greater reductions in cholesterol and heart disease risk in women eating less saturated and trans fat,” said Jacques Rossouw, M.D., WHI project officer.' There they go again, lumping saturated fat with trans fat. Trans fat is definitely bad news for the heart--it does, indeed, increase LDL and decrease HDL. Your credentials notwithstanding, until you show me a study that specifically separates out trans fats from natural saturated fats and shows a detrimental effect for the latter, I will have great difficulty accepting that something that was a natural part of the human diet for the major part of our history--and still is consumed in significant quantities as part of many traditional diets (Inuits, Masai, Thai and other Pacific Islands, and French come to mind) without causing the usual chronic western diseases, including heart disease, can be the causative agent of heart disease and insulin resistance in this country. Sorry. Too many black swans.
  26. "In terms of Dr. Bernstein, I believe his actual belief is to keep an AVERAGE glucose between 85-95. Those are low levels and most people without Diabetes have fasting levels in that range."

    I misplaced my book, so I had to copy this from Dr. B's website:

    "So how do we go about setting a target normal value given all these numbers? Let’s take a look at a type 2 diabetic whose disease can be controlled by diet and exercise. Here, we’ll certainly shoot for blood sugars of about 85 mg/dl before, during, and after meals. It will then
    be up to both me and the patient jointly—if his blood sugars are, say, in the 90s—to decide whether we want to introduce medications to further lower blood sugar. Many patients these days are hesitant to take any medication that’s been approved by the FDA, despite many
    such medications’ being quite benign. If we have a type 2 diabetic who requires the insulin-sensitizing drugs like metformin or the thiazolidinediones, we certainly can shoot for a target blood sugar of 85 mg/dl before, during, and after meals, and indeed, I will work with the patient to juggle the medications, using long- or short-acting versions in order to achieve that target."

    Oops. I think you guessed wrong. He is recommending 85 before, during, AND after meals, and does not, repeat NOT, limit that to non-diabetics. He additionally seems to believe that it's time to take action when glucose levels are in THE 90's.

  27. Zepp
    Well Ricky, you dont convice my at all.. perticuly on thats you have been study nutrison, becuse every one knows thats LDL isnt bad for you, whith out it you will die!

    The first study dont support your belive at all, they didnt find anything, they sugest anyhow!

    The other one is also a reveiw articel that finds nothing but sugest a lot on old belives.

    The third contradict your staments!

    "Following an eating pattern lower in total fat did not significantly reduce the incidence of breast cancer, heart disease, or stroke, and did not reduce the risk of colorectal cancer in healthy postmenopausal women, according to the latest clinical trial results from the National Institutes of Health’s Women’s Health Initiative (WHI)."

    I can give you som other to read if you missed it!

    "Background: A reduction in dietary saturated fat has generally been thought to improve cardiovascular health.

    Objective: The objective of this meta-analysis was to summarize the evidence related to the association of dietary saturated fat with risk of coronary heart disease (CHD), stroke, and cardiovascular disease (CVD; CHD inclusive of stroke) in prospective epidemiologic studies.

    Design: Twenty-one studies identified by searching MEDLINE and EMBASE databases and secondary referencing qualified for inclusion in this study. A random-effects model was used to derive composite relative risk estimates for CHD, stroke, and CVD.

    Results: During 5–23 y of follow-up of 347,747 subjects, 11,006 developed CHD or stroke. Intake of saturated fat was not associated with an increased risk of CHD, stroke, or CVD. The pooled relative risk estimates that compared extreme quantiles of saturated fat intake were 1.07 (95% CI: 0.96, 1.19; P = 0.22) for CHD, 0.81 (95% CI: 0.62, 1.05; P = 0.11) for stroke, and 1.00 (95% CI: 0.89, 1.11; P = 0.95) for CVD. Consideration of age, sex, and study quality did not change the results.

    Conclusions: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat. "

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract

    And here is an interesting articel in LA!

    "Fat was once the devil. Now more nutritionists are pointing accusingly at sugar and refined grains."

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/20/health/la-he-carbs-20101220

  28. Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, MD Team Diet Doctor
    Ricky #72,

    "No high quality trial (RCT) has ever managed to prove that eating less fat or less saturated fat protects against heart disease or premature death."

    This is not true either, you asked for a single one, here it is:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21735388
    and another:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21727918

    Those are not RCTs (randomized controlled trials).

    Please try again. I have asked some pretty impressive people the same question over the years without any luck, you can still be the first to find one.

    The first link you posted (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21735388) is a very interesting new Cochrane meta-analysis of RCTs though (that I tweeted a while back). All the real evidence there is. If you read it you'll at once see that avoiding saturated fat does NOT prolong life. Neither does it protect against fatal cardiovascular disease. Pretty disappointing, no?

    The authors focus on the only tiny difference they find: slightly reduced event-rate. However, that is only seen in small trials and the funnel plot shows probable publication bias. Also, the tiny difference disappears when excluding studies that had "systematic differences in diet other than fat". It also disappears when excluding studies with "systematic difference in care".

    There you have it. Good night, lipid hypothesis.

    Also, I didn't "move the goal post" I simply quoted the American Diabetes Association's levels of acceptable BG spikes.

    The ADA recommends a high carb diet for diabetics. They recommend that diabetics eat real bread (high carb). Julian Bakery are claiming that their bread is low carb ("net 1 carb" per slice). That is obviously a fairy tale.

    You are basically claiming the bread is low carb as it does not raise BG levels more than a high carb diet does. It seems you (and the other representative for JB) are either dishonest or you do not even have a clue what low carb is.

    After reading your comments the second explanation seems more and more likely.

  29. Wow, talk about fighting multiple battles! I am happy to address each and every one of you but first off, let me address the Doc.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21735388 clearly states 'randomised with appropriate control group' and later goes on to say that the authors agree 'Lifestyle advice to all those at risk of cardiovascular disease and to lower risk population groups, should continue to include permanent reduction of dietary saturated fat and partial replacement by unsaturates.' You can make a gray area of saturated fats if you'd like to get attention from the many Americans who might jump into your 'fairy tale' but don't get it confused, you are the one in a saturated fairy tale.

    JB was given the nutritional information by a third party who evaluated the bread in a lab, as FDA requirements state. If you think that just because a few people here or there are spiking from eating our bread for one reason or another, we are going to change those labels to make them look worse than they really are? Again, another fairy tale. So why don't we settle this and you tell me what you would do in our situation. You just don't like whole grains, so you feel it necessary to fight a battle against companies who make whole grain products. You accuse us of dishonesty or "...you do not even have a clue what low carb is." Someone in a previous post put it pretty well if you ask me. No one has established what 'low carb' is so that again, is another gray area of nutrition. Therefore, you don't know what low carb is, no one really knows what low carb is. What is the exact amount of carbs that makes something low carb? Answer me that.

    One more thing: 'The ADA recommends a high carb diet for diabetics.' - Again something that is a flat out lie that you have no documentation referenced to support. The ADA recommends carb counting and recognizing what foods keep you in your healthy range. Why would they recommend high carb counts, that is ridiculous. I have caught you making stuff up and lying about 5 times in only 3 posts Doc, so after reading your comments, your accusations of us being dishonest seem to be true only for yourself. I am about as honest as they come Doc, I would NEVER make something up as you just did.

    Now on to the other guys.

    Ok guys, it seems as if some of you are misunderstanding my stance on carbohydrates and nutrition. I, like you, believe that simple carbohydrates are bad nutrients. I have completely removed sweets and sugar from my diet for a couple years now. I love my low carb diet, as I have maintained less than 10% body fat and have lots of lean muscle. I have amazing energy levels throughout the day, and my mind is almost always on point. I, unlike you, also try to stay away from saturated fats.

    @Zepp - The LA article you posted is a great article that is in agreement with all of us regarding carbohydrates. However, you are confused about the WHI study, the Doc referenced that study, not me, and almost everything I read on there contradicted his arguments.

    @Zepp - "Well Ricky, you dont convice my at all.. perticuly on thats you have been study nutrison, becuse every one knows thats LDL isnt bad for you, whith out it you will die!"

    Not really quite sure what you are trying to say to me there, but you clearly have a misconception of LDL and my beliefs of it. The last part you are correct about, your body needs cholesterol to create cell membranes, regulate body heat, etc. However all of the necessary LDL needed by your body is already created by your liver from other nutrients. You DO NOT need any intake of LDL through your diet to maintain necessary levels. In fact, excess LDL simply turns to plaque in your arteries, until the healthy HDL comes through to try to rip that plaque out of there. This is why I highly advocate eating unsaturated fats. I also highly advocate really learning something before you put it into your body. The best piece of information you had on your post was the AJCN article, because that is the FIRST argument in favor of Sat Fats I have EVER seen with any substance. I will certainly note this group and keep an eye out on them, so thank you for that. It seems that this same group of people has other studies similar to this too. They are all brand new studies and I didn't read through in depth but I look forward to seeing their work more closely to determine what is going on.

    @gharkness - I think we can both agree the lower the better. With insulin meds, it is possible for diabetics on low-carb diets to keep low BGL. Most non diabetics have no clue what their BGL is.

    @margaretrc - I understand your concern for grouping these fats together, as I do not like this either. However, as I described above, LDL is what rises when you eat both of those types of fats which contributes to atherosclerosis. I 100% respect your idea that saturated fats in history and other areas of the world were/are not causing issues, and I love that way of thinking. However, in our area of the world, our saturated fats consist of McDonalds, french fries, sausages, hot dogs, processed meats, you get the point. In those other areas of the world, their saturated fats are unprocessed, probably organic forms of beef and things of that nature. Nice work though, you are looking in the right direction and I respect that, I also respect that you seem to be the most mature of everyone here, so thank you for that. Trust me, I wish I could eat a nice fat hamburger for lunch everyday, and you sure can if you want. However, I like my low carb, unsaturated fat diet, so I am going to stick to that.

    Lastly, I did what I came here to do: introduce myself and my credentials in question. We have all presented our arguments here, and I have spent enough time trying to convince you all to simply educate yourself before making diet decisions (as you should in all aspects of life). You can't just rely on people like the elusive diet doctor to make your decisions. If you feel you have done your due diligence and think you are better off eating saturated fats and avoiding whole grains, then that's purely your decision. If I enjoy eating whole grain bread and staying away from saturated fats, that's my decision. Unfortunately, some people have dieting obstacles like Diabetes. To those people, good luck, and be careful. You know what works for you and what doesn't.

    One thing I can ASSURE you, is that us at JB are in no way are trying to deceive anyone. Heath is a great guy who means well, and I tell it how it is. We get tons and tons of people who thank us every single day for the products that we make, both low-carb and gluten free. Receiving comments from people like 'your products have changed my life' and 'I credit losing 40 pounds to your products', feels great! It makes my day when I read those compliments. I would in no way advocate something that I didn't think was true, as I pride myself on my integrity. If any of you would like to continue this conversation, I would be happy to respond on an individual basis. Please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal email address: richard@julianbakery.com. Thanks for reading, and godspeed!

  30. Milton
    Ricky- to be clear, you seem to advocate a restriction in saturated fat intake from foods such as fast foods and processed foods? I don't think anyone, including the LCHF proponents here, would argue in favor of fast foods or processed foods (though obviously they promote a high-fat diet). Many of those also include plenty of "bad" carbs (white bread, refined sugar) either in the meal or as a side component.

    I think that when we eat a healthy diet in proper proportions, we are far less likely to ingest anything that is harmful or in amounts that are harmful. Pretty much anything can be toxic in the wrong amounts, even vitamins. I think that the war against fat intake has led people to avoid it to their detriment. And worse, they have substituted sugar and refined carbs (and "low-fat" processed junk) in its place.

    What is your take on the various types of LDL? While it is generally considered to be a "bad cholesterol," LDL has a vital role to play in the proper functioning of our bodies, in that it carries cholesterol to areas where it is needed. LDL can come in at least two forms, the large and buoyant (pattern A) or small and dense (pattern B). Some researchers believe that it is the latter that creates problems by becoming lodged in the arterial walls. Perhaps the amount of LDL in the blood is less important than the type?

  31. Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, MD Team Diet Doctor
    Ricky #79,

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21735388 clearly states 'randomised with appropriate control group'

    It's a meta-analysis of RCTs, it's not a RCT.

    You seem like a really nice guy Ricky, I have nothing personally against you. Just to make it clear: The problem with Julian Bakery's so-called low carb bread is that they claim there is only one gram of digestible carbs per slice. That is not even close to true.

    BTW, here's another recent review of the evidence finding no proof that saturated fat is bad:
    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/169/7/659

  32. Margaretrc
    Ricky, you say "in our area of the world, our saturated fats consist of McDonalds, french fries, sausages, hot dogs, processed meats, you get the point. In those other areas of the world, their saturated fats are unprocessed, probably organic forms of beef and things of that nature." I think you generalize too much and place the blame on the wrong thing. No one here is pushing McDonalds and french fries--least of all me--but not because of any natural sat fats they may contain, but because of the trans fats that they fry their potatoes in and probably bake their rolls with. Their beef isn't anything I would seek out, either--it is from cattle raised in CAFOs and I avoid that as much as possible, as I'm sure most people who visit this blog do. As to sausages, hot dogs, and processed meats, they are also not the best--not because of the sat fat, but rather because of the sugar and other chemicals used in processing--and I'm quite sure no one here centers their diet around them, either. To say that Sat fat is bad just because some things that contain it aren't the healthiest foods in the world is kind of like saying that cars are agents of injury/death just because some people drive them carelessly and get into accidents. Do you drive a car? Most of us do. It isn't the car (or the sat fat) that causes the problem. I would recommend you read Uffe Ravnskov's "Saturated fat and Cholesterol are Good for you." In it, he goes through numerous studies that were used to "prove" saturated fat is bad for us and exposes the many, many flaws in the reasoning. It's an eye opener.
    "However, I like my low carb, unsaturated fat diet, so I am going to stick to that." You go right ahead, but some time you might want to do yourself a favor and read Mary Enig"s "Know your Fats." Among her other qualifications, Mary Enig has a PhD in Biochemistry and specializes in lipid chemistry. You don't say what kind of unsaturated fats you center your diet around, but if you are eating more than a minute quantity of polyunsaturated oils, you are doing your body (including your cardiovascular system) much more harm than I am eating my saturated fats. Polyunsaturated oils and, to a lesser degree, monounsaturated oils are both more easily oxidized to form free radicals than saturated fats, so I prefer my fats saturated, thank you very much. Yes, saturated fat raises LDL, but so do carbohydrates. And the LDL that is raised from sat fats is the large, fluffy, buoyant pattern A kind that is more and more believed to be helpful, rather than harmful. Carbohydrates, on the other had, raise the small, dense, pattern B LDL and they are definitely harmful. But you don't get them from eating sat fat or cholesterol, you get them from eating too many carbohydrates.
  33. Margaretrc
    Also Ricky, re the ADA recommendations: Here is the link to the ADA's own website page "Diabetic Super foods" to include in your diet: http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/diabetes... Granted, they do advise to watch portions and keep track (count carbs) as you say, but at least 5 of the items listed are high in carbs and, except for two (nuts and fish), all are carbohydrate loaded foods. If I were a diabetic and saw that, I would think "super food" meant I should/could eat them liberally. Even watching portions, including all of those carbohydrate foods in one's diet is more than likely going to lead to consumption of a pretty high amount of carbohydrates. So the doc is not wrong or lying that the ADA recommends a high (for a diabetic) carbohydrate diet. They certainly don't recommend a low carbohydrate diet. On another page, they explain how sweets and such can be incorporated into the diabetic's diet! Also, in a recent article in Diabetes Health that drew lots of criticism for good reason, a so called diabetes expert said that the "ADA recommendations echo the USDA food guidelines", which are, indeed high in carbohydrates. Perhaps she was not accurate in her assessment of the ADA recommendations, but she seemed to think she was.
  34. Margaretrc
    Correction: The title of Uffe Ravnskov's book is "Fat and Cholesterol are Good for You." But it is about saturated fat cholesterol and how they are not the bad guys we've been led to believe.
  35. Katy
    Sorry Ricky, but your credentials issue is hardly settled in my estimation.

    "I graduated with a BS in Human Nutrition in 07 from a top 25 Nutrition program
    [Which? Where? GPA?]

    Upon graduation I worked with one of the worlds finest Pancreatologists studying enzyme production, pancreatitis and its treatments, as well as certain vitamin deficiencies [Who might this be? Care to name this person?].

    I have had multiple research papers published as a co-author [Such as? We'd like to read them], and am still waiting as a couple more are still in the cue."

    Following the Julian Bakery link above, you claim that a Type 1 diabetic--who takes no medication--can eat your bread without a problem. In my experience, Type 1 diabetics can't eat even a very low carb diet with no medication whatsoever and not have high blood sugars. And the test results don't show what the results were at the 15 minute marks.

    "'The ADA recommends a high carb diet for diabetics.' - Again something that is a flat out lie that you have no documentation referenced to support [WHAT?? Do you know how to use the internet??]. The ADA recommends carb counting and recognizing what foods keep you in your healthy range. Why would they recommend high carb counts, that is ridiculous."

    LOL! Yes, it is absolutely ridiculous, but true nonetheless. The ADA recommends that even diabetics get up to 65% of their calories from carbohydrates. Diabetes educators all around the country do too, to the detriment of their patients.

    Overall, I think both you and Julian Bakery are scam artists. You know nothing, really, about nutrition or the most recent findings regarding low carb diets and saturated fat. And to keep trotting out testimonials and calling them proof only further damages your credibility.

  36. Katy
    Lest anyone misunderstand, here is a recipe for French toast that nutritionist Ricky at Julian Bakery believes is "low carb." Note the absence of egg yolks and the additions of wheat flour and brown sugar! All cooked up in canola oil... Ugh.

    Ingredients:

    6 slices of Julian’s Cinnamon Raisin bread
    1/2 cup liquid egg whites
    1 cup fat-free milk (or soy or almond milk)
    1/2 cup whole wheat flower
    1/2 cup brown sugar
    2 1/2 teaspoons vanilla extract
    pinch teaspoon salt
    pinch of nutmeg
    1 teaspoon cinnamon
    3 tablespoons canola oil, or cooking spray (not olive oil flavored!)

  37. Margaretrc
    Anyone who says type 1 diabetics can get by with no meds--with or without Julian Bakery bread--does not know what he is talking about. Unless shooting insulin doesn't somehow count as medication. I have three family members who are type 1 and they all HAVE to take insulin. My son eats relatively low carb, (at least compared to SAD) though not no carb, and he has to inject himself with insulin after every meal that has ANY carbohydrates, not to mention the slow acting, once a day shot he takes to manage the glucose output from his liver.
    That French toast recipe--all I can say is OMG! 1/2 cup of whole wheat flour? 1/2 cup brown sugar? and 6 slices of bread? That would be high carb enough without the bread at all. And not including any fat to slow down the absorption of all that glucose? Sputter, Sputter, Sputter. Utter ridiculousness.
  38. Yeah, somehow I think Ricky realized he was about to get his head handed to him on a platter, so he got outta here before things got any hotter....
  39. Wow! I didn't create the french toast recipe, nor does it even say "Low Carb" ANYWHERE on that post.

    I did say, however, that if you want to respond to me, email me personally and I will communicate on an individual basis. If you can manage to show more respect and maturity than you have on this blog thread, I will respond to you.

  40. Katy
    Psssst, Ricky-- under the picture of the French toast (under Miss Erica’s Recipe Corner: Waist Friendly French Toast, by Ricky on July 20, 2011), is a descriptive line:

    "Tagged as: french toast, julian bakery, Low Carb Bread, low carb breakfast, low carb french toast, Smart Carb Bread"

    What is wrong with you, man? It's difficult to "show more respect" when you keep throwing out these delusional statements. You have absolutely no respect for our intelligence!

    And I'd still like to know where you went to school.

  41. "I did say, however, that if you want to respond to me, email me personally and I will communicate on an individual basis."

    Right. And that way the rest of us would have no way to see the idiocy that has become of your 'logic.'

    Nope, I think right here is a great place to showcase your talents.

    And where was it you said you went to school? Oh. You didn't say? Why not? From what I have seen here, I do believe you are getting ALL the respect you are entitled to.

  42. David
    Ricky, perhaps you should go find your evil twin who's hiding out at Julian Bakery. He's making you look really silly.
  43. David
    Ricky, re: waiting for research papers to be published ("and am still waiting as a couple more are still in the cue.")

    That's "queue," not "cue." And we're still waiting to see some of the others that you've written.

  44. Fred
    Funny how Jimmy appears just long enough to stir the pot and then leaves, never once addressing Ricky's points. I suppose exalted beings such as himself have no choice but take the 'high road' - above the little people and the fray they help create.
  45. David
    Fred, Jimmy has addressed many issues with Heath over at his blog. It's the same tune. JB states that T1 diabetics can eat their bread with little-to-no increase in BG, but provides no evidence, JB keeps changing the requirements of the testing (no cheese, just plain; then with butter; then with protein), and then claimed that Jimmy was slandering them. Jimmy has told them time and again that he reported HIS results and that his testing method was valid. What more do you want him to do or say? Every time Heath or Ricky writes something, it's contradictory or simply ridiculous. I see nothing wrong with "the little people" telling them so!
  46. Katy
    Ricky, I have a few more questions about that French toast recipe. How many people does it serve? Six? Three? Two? What is it that makes it "waist friendly"? Why is no nutrition information provided?
  47. jessi
    I was diagnosed as Type II Diabetic last week and I did research to find some low carb bread. Today, I purchased a loaf of Julian Bakery's Smart Carb Bread. I was so excited thinking I can still fit some bread into my diet.

    I am so disappointed with the results that I decided to post this online. My blood sugar before eating a tuna sandwich (with mayo) and 2 slices of this bread was 99. Thirty minutes later, my blood sugar shot up to 142. One hour later, it rose even more to 146! Is this caused by the wheat or because the net carbs are false?

    I guess what I read on this page is true. I will no longer believe any food that lists "net" carbs. I will have to go back to using lettuce leaves as my bread. Unless anyone has a recipe that truly does not raise blood sugar?

    Thanks!

  48. Susan Salisbury
    I have discovered Sara Lee "lite" breads. The Honey Wheat bread has 14 carbs for 2 slices with 7 grams of fiber. The other Whole Wheat Lite has net 7 grams of carb per slice. It is fluffy bread and includes soy flour. I have tested my blood sugar after and not had a big spike. It is mostly air , but so are a lot of fluffy breads. They seem to be the real deal. Not a dense chewey bread but something to make a sandwich with.
  49. moreporkplease
    Susan, 7 carbs seems like a lot to me. You can make nice flax muffins with only 2 - they make great sandwiches.
  50. Margaretrc
    Susan, a downside of most commercial low carb breads is they include soy flour, as you indicated. While I'm not against soy completely--traditionally prepared as in Asia, it is probably okay in moderation--soy flour, milk, and textured vegetable protein products still contain all the anti nutrients the soy bean evolved to keep from being eaten and I would advise against consuming any of those products--along with soybean oil, which is high in the inflammatory and easily oxidized omega-6 FA. I'm betting the low carb bread is made with that as well. As moreporkplease says, flax meal bread and muffins are way lower in carbs, don't have any of the nasty stuff in them, and are easy and quick to make. You can make a flax meal muffin in the microwave in not much more than a minute, including prep time, and use it as a hamburger/sandwich bun, a bagel with cream cheese, or just a great vehicle for eating delicious butter.
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