1. Maggan A
    The LCHF-Genie is out of the bottle and there is no way going back! :-)
  2. JAUS
    Well, if even Einstein might be wrong about that nothing exceeds the speed of light, then surely the "experts" that advocate a low fat diet can be wrong too. The strong trust we have in authorities is frightening. I would like to finish this post with a quote from Galileo Galilei:

    "In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual."

  3. Riders in The Storm
    Maggan A - of course there is no way for the LC High Fat Genie to get back in the bottle.

    After all that fat, the Genie is too big to get back into the bottle.

    After being deprived of carbs, the Genie has no energy to even try to squeeze into the bottle.

  4. Polly Cooper
    Ah there is another quote from someone who disbelieves and hasn't tried the LCHF way of living..... it is very easy to dismiss new things and cling to the old way of being.

    Perhaps leave another comment after actually trying it. I'm not trying to be rude to you or insulting in any way whatsoever. I've never felt so well and bursting with vitality. Another advocate of this kind of Low Carbohydrate High Fat eating is Zoe Harcombe if you want to read more on this subject.

    Live and let live but I wish I'd found out this information years ago.

    Incidentally why are you reading The Diet Doctor website if you are so against his philosophies ? Just wondering.

  5. eddie watts
    Polly asks a very good question

    all the LCHF i follow get weird spammers like this, vegetrollians as T Naughton calls them.

    it is very strange...after all i am not interested in foot ball in anyway but i don't follow football blogs and disparage their sport...

  6. It is good for everyone to keep the debate alive.
  7. Maggan A

    Haha I tihink you mixed it up a bit - it is the totally other way around.

    You see the reason why Geanie came out of the bottle in the first place, was beacause it stopped eating carbs. If LCHF would not work it would still be in the bottle ;-)

  8. Mike W
    I agree with Txomin, there's nothing wrong with a skeptic visiting low carb blogs, as long as they're civil about it. Do you really want every blog to just be an "Amen corner"?

    I like reading nutrition blogs out of curiosity. I wouldn't describe myself as a deliberate low-carber: I only eat about 100 grams of carbs a day, mostly because I'm just not into soda pop and starchy stuff like bread, rice, and potatoes. But I love milk chocolate, and have a Hershey bar or M&M's almost every day (sorry, I find dark chocolate inedible). I also have oatmeal with breakfast, and breakfast cereal when I'm in the mood for it. This seems to work for me - I'm over 50, have always been skinny, and my blood sugar, cholesterol and BP are normal.

    But if I were overweight, everything I've read points to going low-carb as the best way to drop the pounds. Once I reached my desired weight, I would try to find out what works to stay that way without completely giving up the food I like.

  9. Maggan A
    MIke W

    The best way to stay on god weight is to avoid to much carbs.

    In the best of worlds we could all eat what we like - but that is unfortunately not possible.

    The bad news is that to much carbs is very bad for our health - de good news is that we dont need to eat them!

  10. It's great that LCHF is getting its due. But the more I read, the more complicated things seem to be. I've been eating low carb (35-45 grams carbs per day) for over six months, have lost 17% of my original body weight, and (in my doctor's words) have my "best ever" blood lipid numbers. Yet in reading Wheatbelly by Dr. Davis, I see a reason to be wary of eating too much meat: advanced glycation end-products (AGEs). Those are present in meat, along with saturated fat, and may cause the problems that conventional diet wisdom has attributed to fat. The way the meat is cooked and processed can increase AGEs. It is also true that eating lots of carbs will result in higher AGEs in your body, so low-carb is still best. But not necessarily low-carb, high animal-based foods.
  11. Zepp
    I should not be that worry about AGE from meat intake, I am more worryed about AGEs thats formed in our bodys.

    For some reason I am convinded that our bodys can coop with those coming from our meat consumtion.. our bodys do have som miljon years to adapt to such diet.

    And at a second thouhgt on it, there is no contradiction betwen lowcarb and good cocking.

    And another thought says to me that overdone food is not that good to eat anyway.

    "AGEs may be formed external to the body (exogenously) by heating (e.g., cooking);[2] or inside the body (endogenously) through normal metabolism and aging. Under certain pathologic conditions (e.g., oxidative stress due to hyperglycemia in patients with diabetes), AGE formation can be increased beyond normal levels. AGEs are now known to play a role as proinflammatory mediators in gestational diabetes as well."


    Its probably the hyperglycemia thats the big isue in this case, and if you do got more AGEs then your body can disposal of, then you have a problem.. probably not that you eat the same food thats our ancestors done for miljons of year.

    The only thing thats sure is that everything can go wrong, even if you eat real food, but if you dont eat you will be dead anyway.

    One lesson we can learn is that we shall not exacerbate everything whit eating food thats make everything worse.

  12. Galina L.
    Companies that produce food manufactured from grains are very powerful and influential. It is beyond any doubt than, for example, CNN health advice is carefully tailored in order not to upset their donors - breakfast cereal producers. I don't believe that our government is independent from that influence as well. It is great than a leading newspaper in England cowers the diet revolution in Sweden.
  13. @ Galina It is great than a leading newspaper in England cowers the diet revolution in Sweden. But the kinds of papers "ordinary" people read that get mass circulation are not so open minded when it comes to discussing Low Carbohydrate High fat diets.
    It's true the Daily Mail has run a few pro LCHF articles which allow comments to be added but one recent article I followed they stopped accepting comments when they became too positive, and then removed some of them. We also have to look at the overall balance and there again they run more anti-LC and many of these they protect their authors from hearing what happens in real life to actual people following a LC diet by not allowing comments.
    I believe UK folk should become more active in responding to anti LC articles. It may appear to be a waste of time and effort but if we are ever going to slow or stop the ever increasing trend for obesity we have to make our voices hear. There are too many vested interests Here are a couple of examples of the size of the problem we are up against.
    Apples to Twinkies: Comparing Federal Subsidies of Fresh Produce and Junk Food
    Breaking Down the Chain: A Guide to the soft drink industry"
  14. PPersson
    A lot of people eating LCHF are eating less meat than before, and it is no problem eating LCHF as a vegetarian.
  15. JAUS
    #10 You know that you can boil meat too? Drying is also a AGE-free cooking method. AGEs is produced when heating vegetables too, so it's no difference eating more or less meat.
  16. Margaretrc
    @Jim Anderson, "low-carb is still best. But not necessarily low-carb, high animal-based foods."
    Problem is, it is difficult to do LC without going somewhat high in animal-based foods. The body needs to get energy from somewhere and protein alone is not a good or healthy source of energy. So reducing carbs means you have to increase your fats and eating a lot of vegetable fats, especially polyunsaturated ones, is highly inflammatory--something you definitely don't want, even more than you don't want AGEs. Even mono-unsaturated fats are still more prone to oxidation than natural saturated fats, which act as antioxidants and so are the best source of energy for us, though there ARE good saturated fats derived from plants as well: coconut oil and palm oil come to mind. AGEs are formed on proteins, not fats, I believe. Thus eating a diet high in natural fats, especially saturated fats, moderate in protein, and low in carbohydrate has to be the best--and is, after all, the one we evolved on and are therefore best equipped to use. And getting protein from plant foods means eating things that contain either a lot of carbs as well (beans and grains) or a lot of anti nutrients (soy) unless traditionally prepared.
    @Mike W, You seem to be one of the genetically gifted who can handle a moderate amount of carbs--at least for now--without impairing your blood glucose or lipid levels. You're lucky and, as long as you don't fear fat, you will most likely continue to be fine--as are many cultures who do eat carbs but in moderation and always have. I believe I kind of am, too. Since I stopped eating low fat vegetarian, when I was the heaviest I have ever been, I have maintained a more or less normal weight, despite eating some carbs. However, I choose to eat low carb along with my husband, who is not so gifted and was, I believe, pre-diabetic before we started. And it is helping me lose a few residual pounds of fat left over from my vegetarian days. As to not liking dark chocolate--I used to be like you. Couldn't stand dark chocolate, loved milk chocolate. But I gradually switched to dark a little bit at a time and now milk chocolate is so cloyingly sweet, I can't stand it. I prefer dark and the darker the better! It is possible to train your taste buds and dark chocolate is not only higher in the lovely antioxidants chocolate is good for, but lower in sugar and much less addicting. A little goes a long way.
    @PPersson, "it is no problem eating LCHF as a vegetarian." That's great, but how? Without eating beans, wheat and soy? Just wondering. My brother's girl friend is vegetarian, but needs to to eat LCHF to bring down sky high blood sugar. Would like to help her do that, but am having trouble figuring out a way. I used to be vegetarian and for a couple of years at the end, I was vegetarian and low carb and it involved eating a lot of soy! My brother and his GF live in south India and soy is not especially available there. She won't eat fish or eggs, so my bro is having a terrible time bringing her sugar down without meds. Any help would be appreciated!
  17. JAUS
    #16 I suspect that PPersson meant that ovo-lacto vegetarians can eat LCHF without problems.
  18. ekonomen
    OT: Just a tip - Hyperlipid and Gnolls have been blogging up a storm recently. As always, it´s well worth reading, both the articles and the ensuing discussion. It is both enlightening and perhaps a tad depressing, although the practical conclusions don´t change much.

    Should we abandon the carbohydrate hypothesis of obesity?

    A defect of fat metabolism

    Back on line

    Did you over eat yourself in to obesity or T2DM?

  19. @ ekonomen It is both enlightening and perhaps a tad depressing, although the practical conclusions don´t change much.
    Indeed, I think when people are trying to apply the Kitavan experience with carbs to the Western Diet they forget the impact of VITAMIN D and it's impact on metabolism and hunger
    I'd corrected my vitamin D/omega 3/magnesium inflammatory status BEFORE I listened to Taubes so when I followed Dr Dahlqvist's dietary programme I had no problems losing weight or with subsequent weight gain, even though I can't use exercise and didn't count calories.
    I'm convinced keeping my blood glucose and insulin levels down allowed that to happen.
  20. Nina
    Andreas what's up with you? You talk as everyone in the UK is obese. Your posts imply that the UK is a desert and that no one has heard of low carb eating.

    Wake up.

    Dr Atkins has a large following here and high profile examples of people who have reversed visceral fat by eating an enjoyable diet. The Eades had extensive coverage in the Daily Mail when 'How to lose your middle aged middle' was published in the UK.

    Imagine that a UK blogger posted comments about violent Scandinavia and the need to spread a message of peace. It's true that Denmark and Sweden have had high profile cases of family shootings recently. Norway's mass killing was shown round the world. Do we believe that D, S and N are hotbeds of gun violence and drooling psychopaths? Nope.

    If you want to extend your market to the UK, then a different angle would be better received, plus an acknowledgement of those who have gone before you.


  21. @ Nina
    I post from the UK and I'm afraid I don't agree with Nina. True there are some UK low carb spokespersons like Zoe Harcombe & Dr Briffa but I'm struggling to think of anyone else.
    It's true there are some brave folk who've taken on Diabetes UK website and tried to establish a low carb group but that has been fraught with problems about what is acceptable. (not what is science based) Even Dr Jay Wortman got drummed out.
    Our newspapers regularly carry low carb articles and some sound a bit helpful but when it comes to actually commenting on what has been said (particularly to counterbalance some of the anti low carb nonsense) the moderation becomes overbearing.

    I think if you are doing low carb in the UK you're on your own and will have to proceed without any support or even tacit agreement from your health professionals.

    I'd love to think that there were UK health professionals who were sufficiently aware of the latest research to speak openly and publicly about the positive role of Low Carbohydrate eating in relation to Alzheimer's, cancer, diabetes, Heart Disease and obesity, but frankly I think it would be professional suicide at the moment.

    Would I welcome a visit by Diet Doctor to the UK. Certainly.
    Do I think the UK press or health professionals would make him equally welcome?

    No chance but I suspect Dr Eenfeldt would still manage to charm Jenny Murray (Woman's Hour Presenter) and could maybe talk some sense into her about the Durkan Diet so his visit wouldn't be wasted.

  22. Jordan M.
    @ Margaretrc

    I have been following the Weston A. Price diet 3.5 years, eating a third of my diet from carbs.

    Labwork two months ago:

    hs-CRP: .7mg/l, Homocysteine: 6.5mmol/l, HbA1c: 4.5%, Serum Ferritin: 40mcg, HDL: 70, LDL: 120, Trigs: 80, Insulin level: 6

    This is with eating red meats, eggs, liver, fruit, veggies, butter, raw dairy, grains which have been fermented, and the occasional fish.

    I don't think the only way to get lipids/health markers to a good level is through low carb (though my trigs did rise from 50 to 80 after switching from low carb Paleo to WAPF).

    Note: I'm not disputing that people with heart disease, diabetes, etc. would probably react better to a high fat/low carb diet than WAPF or another diet, but only that the otherwise healthy would not get diabetes/etc. through another well thought-out diet besides low carb.

  23. Nina #20,
    Is everyone in the UK fat? Of course not. But more people than in any other country in Europe.

    Has nobody heard of low carb in the UK? No, of course they have. But unfortunately only a few seem to be taking it seriously,

    Also, I am aware of the many giants (Atkins, Eades, Taubes etc.) on whose shoulders I attempt to stand.

  24. FrankG
    @Jordan M. #22

    How is a third of your diet from carbs (either as a percentage of energy or as volume) NOT a low carb diet... especially when compared to the fairly standard advice of 45-65% of energy from Carbohydrate?

    This from Franziska Spritzler, RD, CDE... http://www.lowcarbdietitian.com/1/post/2011/09/low-carb-how-low-is-to...

  25. Jordan M.
    @ FrankG #24

    Considering it is about ~200-220 grams of carbs given that percentage, I wouldn't classify it as low on carbs.

  26. GöteborgSteve
    A few months a go I moved to Sweden from England, and it was quite noticable how few hugely obese people are walking round the city here, compared with in the UK. Low carb certainly has supporters in England, but sadly it is not mainstream there (yet).
  27. Nina
    Andreas - look in your own back yard. Denmark has now imposed a fat tax on foods with more than 2.3% saturated fat. If you can't make headway in the rest of Scandinavia, how can you hold the line for LC/HF?


  28. Nina
    Here's one article in the run up to the new Fat Tax in Denmark:


    They may even consider a surcharge on olive oil and dark chocolate later on.

    The article even quotes one scientist who doubts that saturated fat is damaging to health:

    'Fedtskatten har også været kritiseret af forskere for at have begrænset sundhedseffekter.

    »Mættet fedt er ikke længere det djævelske fedt, som man troede tidligere. Derfor burde der ikke indføres en skat på mættet fedt, før en arbejdsgruppe har set på konsekvenserne,« sagde fedmeprofessor Arne Astrup, da fedtskatten blev foreslået. En række nyere undersøgelser viser nemlig, at sammenhængen mellem mættet fedtstof – den type fedtstof, som kød og mælkeprodukter har meget af – og hjerte-kar-sygdomme ikke er så klar, som man tidligere troede.'

    Arne Astrup hasn't been able to persuade the Danish government against the new measures though.

    If you can't persuade the Danes that LC/HF is healthy, then you won't prevent such legislation spreading to the UK.


  29. Zepp
    Well there are high taxes on labour to, thats not working eigther, peopel go to there jobs anyway.

    I have missinterpretted the Danish ministier responsibly.. becuse he dident beliv the fat tax gonna make peopel eat different anyway.. I thought they never should launch it.. but they did.

    And there is no govermental support in Sweden for LCHF at all, they are more suprised about our succes.

    Its more like a grass rot movment, folks take there healt in there own hands, Diabetics that stops eating a lot of carbs, and cuting there insulin to the minimum and get better glucose values, obese do the same and lose weight.

  30. Nina #27,
    Denmark is the sad exception. In the rest of the Nordic countries – Sweden, Norway and Finland – things are moving along very nicely.

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