1. KDM
    That would only happen in Sweden.
  2. Jan
    Now that's what I call a great LCHF coffee break.

    All the best Jan

  3. François
    I wish we could see the same thing here in Canada! Unfortunately, only in my dreams! Even on cancer wards, patients are advised to eat a high carb high protein diet, thus feeding their cancer instead of trying to starve it with a LCHF ketogenic diet. I discussed at length with the dietitian in charge of the program. Though I found her surprisingly open minded to the idea, she stated "there was not enough research yet to make it an official recommendation". So I'll bring her soon a summary of a few hundred articles I found through Peter Attia's blog. Will it make a difference? I doubt it. But I'll try. And keep dreaming about LCHF lunch breaks.

    The only negative thing I see in this lunch is the surprising absence of dark green leafy vegetables (a good salad with a tasty olive oil vinaigrette would make an excellent complement to these very nice cheese slices.

  4. Rock
    Francois is right, I am missing vegetables here and fiber (not only in this photo). I don't think it's a good idea to starve your gut bacteria not to mention the other benefits of vegetables.
    Replies: #6, #7, #8
  5. FrankG
    Kudos to this conference facility.. especially the second day's offering without even having to ask again. It gives me hope that this healthier choice is spreading.

    François and Rock... valid points about the greens but this was a coffee break, not a lunch. Also there is fibre and a wide range of micronutrients here, in at least the nuts and salami :-)

    Meals are not take in isolation -- that is the CICO paradigm -- it is what we eat over the course of several days or weeks that really matters.

  6. erdoke
    I read it was a coffee break. I do not think that you need to have vegetables and fibers 5 times a day. Especially if developing constipation is not the goal. Also, there are some fibers in high quality animal products and also in nuts.
  7. Paul the rat
    @ Rock
    "...I don't think it's a good idea to starve your gut bacteria …"
    Are you a human gut microbiologist ?, or you just have a gut-feeling about what "food" gut bacteria "may like to eat or may find not so tasty and go on hunger strike"?
  8. Murray
    The casein in cheese feeds friendly gut bacteria.
  9. David C. Noe
    Please, what does CICO stand for?
    Reply: #11
  10. Marina
    Hello Jan,

    I hope you can give me an idea about what to eat at breakfast....I like everything of LCHF in general, but when I wake up I really don't feel like eating meat or eggs or bacon....any suggestions?



    Replies: #12, #14
  11. Zepp
    CICO = Calories In, Calories Out!
  12. Zepp
    Skip breakfast, there are only some few hours to lunch!
  13. Zepp
    Back to the topic.. LCHF is not a big deal in Sweden.. only 3% says eating it!

    But.. the big achivement is that its not another strange diet, many know about it.. mostly for reversing diabetes and for losing weight if one is obese.

    Probaby there was some in that kitchen that was eating LCHF him/her self?

    Otherwise they wouldnt have a clou, and thought that one need som biscuits or cake!

  14. Jeff G
    Bulletproof coffee.

    Leftovers from the day before.

    A couple handfuls of macadamia nuts.

  15. Janknitz
    I try not to attend too many conferences ;o), but it seems when I do that more often I am finding that "continental breakfasts" often have hard boiled eggs alongside all the pastries, fruit, bagels, and cream cheese. And if it's held in an upscale place, there's at least Half and half for coffee rather than powdered chemicals.

    I know well enough to pack my own snacks (and rarely need to eat a "continental breakfast" in the first place, but in a pinch it's nice to have an egg or some cream cheese. I usually take an egg or two just in case I can't find anything for lunch, although I generally pack my own lunch.

    The hard boiled eggs are about the best I can expect. If I asked for something LCHF, they would look at me like a crazy person.

  16. Rock
    @Paul - I am no more expert on diet than you are. I just keep an open mind and look beyond meat, butter and cheese. Read Chris Kresser or drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com if you are interested in another perspective, which I doubt.

    You can eat what you want of course.

    Replies: #17, #19
  17. FrankG
    @Rock.. stop making yourself look like an a$$ :-) Read this blog and you will see that LCHF has always been about more than your caricature of "meat, butter and cheese"


  18. Murray
    Cheese for a snack works well for me. A genuine artisan cheese made with real, preferrably raw milk and a traditional bacteria culture (unlike many supermarket cheeses made from "modified milk ingredients"), such as the Brie shown, is high in lactate, made by the bacteria from the lactose sugar. Lactate is the preferred fuel of brain cells, followed next by ketones, of course. Best to eat artisan cheeses made with traditional cultures, as L-lactate is beneficial but R-lactate is neurotoxic. Eating wild bacteria may result in production of R-lactate. Go with the wisdom of timeworn experience.

    I would go with Paul over Chris Kresser on gut bacteria any day.

    Replies: #20, #21, #22
  19. Paul the rat
    @ Rock how do you know what I do for living ?, unless you are one of those really gifted people who know everything about a stranger after 2 minutes of conversation., and of cause I am never interested in another perspective, that is why I decided to relocate to North Korea.
  20. Paul the rat
    here you go Murray

    Anaerobe. 2014 Dec;30:120-5. doi: 10.1016/j.anaerobe.2014.09.015. Epub 2014 Sep 28.
    Probiotic characteristics of Lactobacillus fermentum strains isolated from tulum cheese.
    Tulumoğlu S1, Kaya Hİ2, Simşek O3.
    Author information

    The aim of this study was to characterize the probiotic characteristics of Lactobacillus fermentum strains isolated from Tulum cheese. Seven L. fermentum strains were selected among the isolated and identified lactobacillus strains due to their abundance. When the gastric condition was considered, L. fermentum LP3 and LP4 were able to tolerate pH 2.5 and 1% bile salt. All L. fermentum strains had similar enzymatic activity and antibiotic resistance pattern but the highest antagonistic effect was detected within LP3, LP4 and LP6. Cholesterol assimilation amount of L. fermentum strains ranged between 12.1 and 45.3% in MRS and 20.7-71.1% in MRS with bile. The highest cholesterol assimilation in MRS and MRS with bile was occurred by LP3 and LP4, respectively. L. fermentum LP2 adhered to caco-2 cells more than Lactobacillus rhamnosus LGG where LP3, LP4 and LP5 adhered at similar level. In conclusion, L. fermentum LP3 and LP4 fulfilled sufficient criteria to be probiotics for use as a starter culture in the production of tulum cheese or other dairy products. Also this study indicated that some food-associated Lactobacillus strains non-predominant for gut biota have significant probiotic potential.

  21. Paul the rat
    just one more (out of many) to show that good bacteria "eat" not only fiber - as we all here know.

    As I said few times on dietdoctor, the need for daily, copious dietary supply of fiber for health benefits is simply a lie.

    J Proteomics. 2014 Aug 20. pii: S1874-3919(14)00379-0. doi: 10.1016/j.jprot.2014.07.018. [Epub ahead of print]
    Surface proteins of Propionibacterium freudenreichii are involved in its anti-inflammatory properties.
    Le Maréchal C1, Peton V1, Plé C2, Vroland C1, Jardin J1, Briard-Bion V1, Durant G1, Chuat V3, Loux V4, Foligné B2, Deutsch SM1, Falentin H1, Jan G5.
    Author information

    Propionibacterium freudenreichii is a beneficial bacterium used in the food industry as a vitamin producer, as a bio-preservative, as a cheese ripening starter and as a probiotic. It is known to adhere to intestinal epithelial cells and mucus and to modulate important functions of the gut mucosa, including cell proliferation and immune response. Adhesion of probiotics and cross-talk with the host rely on the presence of key surface proteins, still poorly identified. Identification of the determinants of adhesion and of immunomodulation by P. freudenreichii remains a bottleneck in the elucidation of its probiotic properties. In this report, three complementary proteomic methods are used to identify surface-exposed proteins in a strain, previously selected for its probiotic properties. The role of these proteins in the reported immunomodulatory properties of P. freudenreichii is evidenced. This work constitutes a basis for further studies aimed at the elucidation of mechanisms responsible for its probiotic effects, in a post-genomic context.
    Dairy propionibacteria, mainly the species Propionibacterium freudenreichii, are consumed in high amounts within Swiss type cheeses. These peculiar bacteria are considered both as dairy starters and as probiotics. Their consumption modulates the gut microbiota, which makes them both probiotic and prebiotic. Promising immunomodulatory properties have been identified in these bacteria, in vitro, in animals and in humans. However, the mechanisms responsible for such anti-inflammatory properties are still unknown. In this work, we identify surface proteins involved in adhesion and immunostimulation by P. freudenreichii. This opens new perspectives for its utilization in new functional fermented food products, in clinical trials, and in understanding modulation of gut inflammation by products containing propionibacteria.

    Reply: #23
  22. Paul the rat
    I wish I could post complete pdf, but I can not.

    Biofactors. 2012 Nov-Dec;38(6):440-9. doi: 10.1002/biof.1043. Epub 2012 Sep 20.
    In vitro evaluation of the fermentation properties and potential prebiotic activity of caprine cheese whey oligosaccharides in batch culture systems.
    Oliveira DL1, Costabile A, Wilbey RA, Grandison AS, Duarte LC, Roseiro LB.
    Author information

    The prebiotic effect of oligosaccharides recovered and purified from caprine whey, was evaluated by in vitro fermentation under anaerobic conditions using batch cultures at 37°C with human faeces. Effects on key gut bacterial groups were monitored over 24 h by fluorescence in situ hybridization (FISH), which was used to determine a quantitative prebiotic index score. Production of short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs) as fermentation end products was analyzed by high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). Growth of Bifidobacterium spp was significantly higher (P ≥ 0.05) with the purified oligosaccharides compared to the negative control. Lactic and propionic acids were the main SCFAs produced. Antimicrobial activity of the oligosaccharides was also tested, revealing no inhibition though a decrease in Staphylococcus aureus and Escherichia coli growth. These findings indicate that naturally extracted oligosaccharides from caprine whey could be used as new and valuable source of prebiotics.

  23. Murray
    Thanks, Paul. I am always keen to learn more about cheese and yoghurt. I sometimes get a particular yoghurt that has five bacteria strains including Propionibacterium freudenreichii. (Frank, it is Mapleton, which I think is made near where you are.) The propionic acid gives the taste mild Swiss cheese-like notes. I still prefer a couple of local artisan sheep's milk yoghurts, which have more tang and depth, but I haven't got the bacterial profiles yet. I've asked the two makers before in passing (I see them at the market many Saturday mornings) but no one likes to give out secret recipes. The one has her own sheep herd and really understands grasses, so she is setting aside a wheel of June milk raw Gouda for me. The other gets her milk from sheep on traditional Mennonite farms but now the ewes are dry until January. But that is okay. As the saying goes, "winter cheese is boring." So I got a Mont d'Or Vacherin instead. I actually prefer Winnemere cheese from Jasper Hill in Vermont, which is wrapped in spruce bark like Mont d'Or, but no retailer carries it around here that I could find. (Canada has cheese import quotas and few of the buyers use quota on Vermont cheeses, sadly.)
    Reply: #24
  24. Paul the rat
    Cheese fermentation of my own design is my hobby. We do this with my friend on his hobby farm. Sometimes we use our creations with IBD patients to re-set their gut microbes - incognito of cause, as this is obviously illegal, not approved by established medical practice, procedure - despite the fact that we have spectacular positive results.
  25. Murray
    Well, Paul, you are now my go-to guy on cheese fermentation.

    Here is something you might enjoy (although I would put "Roquefort" in place of "Stilton")


    For a while I had a cow-share in a Guernsey that was grass-fed and so I got a regular allotment of raw milk. We got milk, cream and yoghurt, although the kids drank more of the milk than I did. The raw grass-fed dairy had a noticeable soothing effect on the gut. Unfortunately, at a town hall meeting the farmer embarrassed an ill-informed municipal Councillor, who took revenge by getting the farmer harassed by bureaucrats (endless environmental inspections but never cited for any violation). It got to be too much so he quit the cow-share arrangements to end the regulatory harassment. In our jurisdiction it is unlawful to sell raw milk (in order to ensure a monopoly for milk board quotas) and there is legal uncertainty over cow shares. The government does not want to push the issue directly (bad politics) so they do it indirectly through regulatory harassment. So we lost our supply and the kids no longer drink milk as they can't stand industrial milk now.

    Reply: #26
  26. Paul the rat
    Cheese is a good vehicle to deliver (and sustain) desired bacteria in the most natural and tasty way. My friends and I have access to raw cow, mare, sheep and goat milk (and fully equipped microbiology lab) so, basically what we produce is limited only by our imagination. Thank you for the link.

    J Dairy Sci. 2010 Apr;93(4):1364-71. doi: 10.3168/jds.2009-2397.
    Dietary cheese whey protein protects rats against mild dextran sulfate sodium-induced colitis: role of mucin and microbiota.
    Sprong RC1, Schonewille AJ, van der Meer R.
    Author information

    Data from the literature suggest that the availability of the amino acids threonine, cysteine, or both, is limiting for mucin synthesis under conditions of chronic inflammatory bowel disease. Unlike casein, cheese whey protein is rich in these amino acids. The protective effect of cheese whey protein was examined using dextran sulfate sodium (DSS)-induced inflammation of the large intestine in rats that were fed a diet containing casein, cheese whey protein, or casein supplemented with threonine and cysteine. The clinical markers diarrhea and fecal blood were determined using biochemical assays, and gene expression of inflammation markers was used to quantify inflammation. The effect of dairy protein on mucin production was determined by gene expression of rat mucin 2 (MUC2) and by quantifying fecal mucin excretion. Fecal lactobacilli and bifidobacteria were determined using quantitative PCR. Dietary cheese whey protein reduced DSS-induced gene expression of the inflammation markers interleukin 1beta, calprotectin, and inducible nitric oxide synthase, and diminished the clinical symptoms diarrhea and fecal blood loss. Moreover, cheese whey protein increased fecal mucin secretion without affecting gene expression of MUC2, suggesting enhanced mucin synthesis. In addition, cheese whey protein increased fecal lactobacilli and bifidobacteria counts. Supplementation of threonine and cysteine showed comparable effects. In conclusion, cheese whey protein protected rats against DSS-induced gut inflammation. This can most likely be explained by its threonine and cysteine content. Protection can be the result of both the stimulation of intestinal mucin synthesis and modification of microflora composition.

  27. Jack
    Quote: she stated "there was not enough research yet to make it an official recommendation". Unquote

    With experts who have 'so much knowledge', It's no wonder we are having a struggle to convince people of the benefits of ditching starch, sugar and grains. I hope she reads the stuff you find

    We are fighting a losing battle.

    For 'ROCK':

    The other day, I reminded a vegetarian friend that his choice of lifestyle was only possible, because these days, so much fruit and veg is available to us out of season. The choice wasn't available to our hunter gatherer ancestors, and without meat they would have starved; maybe even in summer, they would have gone short of greens. Of course he told me I was being silly. He gave me the old saw, that we are not meant to eat meat! I think I will keep my counsel in future, and if he succumbs to diabetes, I shall know why; He won't be any the wiser, but it will be too late to help him, sadly. I hope that's not what is in store for you Rock...

  28. ZUMBA NY Beth
    I am new to this lifestyle of LCHF and am allergic to all nuts. Many LCHF friendly recipes I have found use nut flours. Is there an alternative ingredient to replace the use of nut flours please and thank you.
    Replies: #30, #38
  29. George Fouriezos
    When the Executive of my woodworking club decided to attract members to the election meeting by having snacks, I recommended we include a meat and cheese platter, a diabetic frendly alternative to the usual cake and cookie offerings. They agreed (and this _was_ in Canada). FWIW, the meat and cheese platter was the first to empty.
    George F.
    You can see my own success managing blood sugar by diet at http://web.ncf.ca/fx536
  30. Zepp
    Yes coconut flour!

    But one can always skip baking and eat real food instead.

    Reply: #32
  31. ZUMBA NY Beth
    WONDERFUL!!!!!!! I will look into that. Thanks so much for the advice =)
  32. Murray
    Coconut is a nut. A work colleague in the office beside mine is allergic to nuts and cannot have coconut at all. Chestnut flour is another non-grain flour I sometimes use, but he is allergic to chestnuts as well.
  33. ZUMBA NY Beth
    My understanding from my allergist is that coconuts are technically a fruit and most people with a tree nut allergy have no issue with coconut. That is the case for myself anyhow. I am looking forward to trying the coconut flour. On a side note, food allergies are on the rise---a full10% of children are now diagnosed with one or more food allergies. It is theorized that the agricultural revolution with the introduction of mass processing of foods and/or the use of pesticides has contributed to this phenomenon. Yet another reason to eat REAL food =)
  34. Murray
    Glad you are not allergic to coconut. I use coconut oil every day and would miss it.

    Nuts are fruits in a hard shell. Allergies vary. My wife is allergic to raw tree nuts from temperate zones (almonds, hazelnuts, walnuts, pecans) but not if they are cooked. She is not allergic to tropical zone nuts (macadamia nut, coconut, Brazil nut). Same with other tree fruit. Allergic to apples, pears, peaches, etc., unless cooked, but not tropical tree fruit.

  35. ZUMBA NY Beth
    food allergies suck for sure !!!!!!! gotta carry my epi-pen and benadryl everywhere =/ Interesting that cooking the fruit somehow changes the bodies reaction to it---I have more research to do!!! Thanks for the info =)
  36. Murray
    Okay, Paul, I get it now. Rats like cheese! I had always thought lab rat. Or perhaps it's a double play on words.

    I spoke with one of my dairy artisans yesterday at the market. They have tried making mare's milk cheese but have a difficult time getting it to consistent commercial quality. I asked if they could make me some yoghurt.

    Reply: #37
  37. Paul the rat
    Hey Murray, you are not exactly right on "the rat" part . While ago I posted several papers on research pertaining to brain/neurons function in response to ketogenic diet/ketone bodies - these research were carried out on the rats. One of the trolls, who boasted to report only facts, obviously dismissed these research and said that I must be a rat because I can not tell the difference between humans and rats. Since this troll reported only facts, I concluded that I must be a rat. Speaking of trolls, where are they? - we are enjoying peaceful times lately on the dietdoctor. (I am a lab rat, using rats and mice for my research and I love cheese so partially you are right).
    p.s. we do not use pure mare's milk, we always mix it with cow or goat milk.
  38. MerryKate
    A few of other options to replace nut flours: unflavored protein powders, lupin flour, oat fiber and even ground pork rinds (really...tastes better than it sounds). If you google lowcarbfriends, you'll find a bunch of low-carb recipes, usually with nut-free variations since so many people have allergies.

    Zepp, there's no reason to slam LCHF baked goods or impugn the people who eat them. Low-carb baked goods *are* real food; unlike their sugary counterparts, they are full of nutrients. If I use an egg to make an omelette, that doesn't make it more virtuous than if I use the same egg to make a muffin. I'm still eating an egg.

    Reply: #39
  39. Marimini
    Have you used ground legumes? I started with experimenting with making socca (a flat bread made with ground chickpeas). My favorite now is yellow pea flour. They are higher in carbs than the nut flours, but the protein and fiber are high too!
    But I think they would be too dense to use in dessert or yeast bread baking (except as an addition). For flat breads, they work well.
    I sometimes make a batch to serve with a meal when I am having a craving for bread. Very easy to make. Mix bean flour, water, olive oil, and seasonings if you like. Let it sit for a bit. Pour into a hot greased pan (I melt my bacon fat in the pan) and bake at 425 for 20 minute (or cook it like a pan cake).
    I would recommend looking at a book called "The Homemade Flour Cookbook" by Erin Alderson. Half of the book is full of non wheat flours.
  40. Emma
    I have recently been asked if I have any dietary requirements for a course.. The UK is still not up to spec with LCHF and I am unsure if I will be accommodated. I will probably take my own food with me as I find trying to explain this way of eating very time consuming .. Perhaps I am being defeatist in my attitude but the UK have a long way to go with this.

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