This is, unfortunately, not a joke. Morbid obesity is becoming completely normal in the US.
Who knows where this will end? If we just keep repeating the failed and simplistic “calories in calories out” dogma it won’t be pretty.
The Largest Man in the World
More
50 Comments
Top Comments
All Comments
- no words...
- Will@peter..
vegetables have carbs too.. i wasnt talking about veggies..
by carbs i meant grains... pasta/bread etc..
can you eat some bread and be thin... absolutely...
however it is sub optimal to do so... why not just stick with meat and veggies...
grains have been consumed since the last 10000 years.. not enough time for humans to fully adapt to them... - FrankGI think it was Dr Mary Vernon in her interview with Dr Eenfeldt where she says something like "the pioneers get the arrows, while the settlers get the land"... in this case I see Jimmy Moore as one of those ground-breaking pioneers who has taken more than his fair share of arrows for his efforts... meantime the settlers amble along later and act as if they thought up the whole thing first
There is no need to point at individuals and point out what you might perceive as their failings. Any of us who have struggled over many years, or decades, with significant obesity can tell you that there is NOTHING you can say which is worse than the self-guilt with which we have subjected ourselves -- wrongfully subjected as it now turns out.
I recently started with a new Endo (my previous, an excellent Doctor, died of old age) -- she just looks at me as I appear now... a moderately overweight middle-aged man with Type 2 Diabetes etc... she has not seen or lived through, the incredible improvement in my health over recent years.
In much the same way you might feel justified to judge Jimmy (you aren't!) by comparing him to a young lean man... compared to who he was at his heaviest, he is so much better than that.
I don't reasonably expect to ever get back the physique or health that I enjoyed in my early 20's but I'm happy with where I am today... not that it is really anybody else's business but my own
- DarleneOne thing I think is being ignored is that obesity, morbid or otherwise is now socially acceptable. "Real women have curves" is something I hear and see everywhere. I always want to reply "Yes and obese women have folds, bulges, shortness of breath and type II diabetes." but it's amazing how hard you will get shot down if you say something like that! Exercise, intelligent food choices and self control is how you keep and maintain a healthy weight. Key exercise: put down the fork!
- moreporkpleaseI'm really so over the so-called "Paleo" movement. It's so clear that it's become just another way to hate fat people. The attacks against Jimmy Moore are just disgusting.
For a concept supposedly based on evolution and human genetics, Paleo followers don't actually act on their pretended beliefs. Instead of attacking Jimmy for being fat - oh, and a successful internet entrepreneur - a person who actually believed in evolution and genetics would ask "what's the deal with Jimmy's genes?"
While the effed-up USA health system makes it dangerous to talk about your genetics openly lest you lose your insurance, it's clear Jimmy has duff mitochondria and metabolic flaws. And has always had them, since birth.
What Paleo peeps should be doing is asking Jimmy: what's your SNPs for the methylation cycle? Do you share those known flaws in A1298c etc? I'll bet you steak to doughnuts that like about 15% of Americans, Jimmy has this genetic flaw.
Once we know that, we can direct Jimmy to better treatment. And by the way, Jimmy's lost a lot of weight recently. He's dropped 20 in the last month alone just from following the advice in Volek's latest book. Low carb is one of the keys to working around your bad mitochondria, but there are other key portions too beyond that, as the Yale researcher Dr. Yasko has clearly proven.
The science in this area is moving rapidly. We have to keep up instead of just bashing Jimmy out of jealousy.
- I deleted a couple of posts bashing Jimmy Moore, something he certainly do not deserve.
Regarding this being another "negative" post on Americans in particular: You are leading the world, both in bad and good ways. That's why I can't stay away. Quite a few of my biggest heroes are Americans and some of them figure on this blog frequently.
- BarbThank you FrankG, Linda, Moreporkplease and Doc for putting into words what I wanted to say, but was unable to verbalize. There were some meanspirited posts here earlier, and I wasn't sure where they were coming from.
I live in the south, and the number of seriously obese people here is probably higher than in many spots. Seeing someone as heavy as the cop in the picture is a normal everyday ocurence. I cannot imagine that any of these people is happy weighing as much as they do. It's hot enough here without carrying around an additional 100 (or more) pounds. Everything is harder when you are obese. I remember well the frustration of constantly shopping, trying to find clothes that 'didn't make me look fat'. When it finally sunk in that it wasn't my clothes, it was the extra 45 lbs that I was carrying around that made me look fat, I did something about it.
- Wade HendersonLeave it to some to take a message and run well past science...
from Will above...
"vegetables have carbs too.. i wasnt talking about veggies..
by carbs i meant grains... pasta/bread etc..
can you eat some bread and be thin... absolutely...
however it is sub optimal to do so... why not just stick with meat and veggies...
grains have been consumed since the last 10000 years.. not enough time for humans to fully adapt to them"So having any carbs is "sub-opitmal"... Only veggies and meat are optimal
Grains have only been consumed (according to his science) for the past 10,000 years.
Gosh, I never new all the billions of people who have lived through recorded history, and essentially 99.9% of them have all lived with "sub-optimal" nutrition.
Now, in the year, 2012, we have seen the light, and for "optimal" nutrition, we entirely eliminate all grains. After all, we're brilliant, we have science.I'm sure all the millions and millions of folks in the world who live slender healthy lives on diets that include grains, should just eliminate them, so they also can be "optimal".
One thing I'll say about Jimmy Moore, is that he isn't afraid to have guests on that give reasonable science that doesn't fit in lock-step with the mindless unwavering dogma that so many feel the need to express.
Its a big world out there, billions of people, many living and eating healthy in other ways.
They don't even have access daily meat. I guess they can't be "optimal". - Nothing wrong with being Obese if that person chooses so! It's only when people remain obese when they try to lose weight due to hearing the tired old low fat dogma.
- KaidoCouple days ago I saw documentary "Fathead" and there where pretty ok looking guy who said his BMI is over 30 so he is considered as obese by todays standards. I was like maybe we are somewhat harsh to people, guy looks normal, some bodyfat, sure, but shouldn't obese be something more fatty?
Then later that day I read article, where was written: "In 1966 the proportion of people with a BMI of over 30 (classified as obese) was just 1.2% for men and 1.8% for women." - moreporkpleaseHi NS
"I also wonder why nobody else seems to have noticed this and why Mr. Moore has not been more forthcoming and open about this issue."
But Jimmy has been open about it. That's how come we all know his number, and also his high fasting blood glucose number. Jimmy's clearly pre-diabetic and highly insulin resistant with metabolic syndrome. He admits that himself. He thought he was eating correctly, but clearly he wasn't, and he has corrected that somewhat with Dr. Volek's book.
Does Jimmy need to do more? Certainly; he admits that. Does Jimmy need metformin? He's tried metform before and the side effects made him ill. Could Jimmy benefit from niacin and silymarin? Definitely.
So what else is left for anyone to be "more forthcoming" about? Have you published your history of fasting blood sugar, weight, calories, and lipids on the net, NS?
- SuzieI noticed the same thing about Jimmy's lipids. Lipid science appears to be changing according to Dr. Dayspring. It seems to be all about particle number now. Jimmy's particles are large and fluffy not small and dense. From what I gather, the thinking when he had his lipids measured was that large fluffy was good. Also he had a zero calcium score on a heart scan which I would think was good. So, at the time, he probably thought all was good. After interviewing Dayspring, he may have second thoughts or not. If he wants to discuss it with the world, that's fine. If not, it's none of anyone's business. Science is always changing something - how many times do you think you know something and then "they" decide it's just the opposite?
- NS@Suzie
Thank you, that is exactly the point. Dayspring is absolutely adament that LDL lipoprotein number is the KEY measure, irrespective of size or other factors. If this is in fact true, then JM's NMR results are indeed surprising and sobering since he follows LCHF pretty strictly. And consequently it is not just his problem but ours as well. Dayspring uses Tim Russert's demise despite stellar cholesterol numbers at the time to highlight the desperate need to focus on total LDL lipoprotein numbers. Borrowing from him, ".....if you don't have enough of the lipoproteins carrying the cholesterol into your arteries, you CANNOT have a cardiac event."
Incidentally, no one is attacking JM personally. But as science reveals new truths, people obviously have a responsibility to change their positions and be honest. JM's blood profile IS our business since HE has made it so. Who would bother following anything he had to say unless that information had some kind of influence/consequence on THEM as well?? We are all in this boat together and when we see something that doesn't add up, we have a right/duty to speak up about it.
- SuzieNS,
Dayspring also said that a low carb diet was the way to minimize triglycerides, which minimizes VLDL which reduces LDL. I think Jimmy must have some kind of issue with his metabolism like being APO E4 or something (just speculation). Those people can have a problem with saturated fat which can lead to very high cholesterol. That would not affect the rest of us (who don't have APO E4), nor reflect badly on the LCHF diet. It would go to show that people are different and it is a good idea to know how your body responds to different diets. I actually agree with you to some degree that Jimmy should bring up the issue since he was telling people that big fluffy LDL is not bad. - NSYes Suzie,
We are in agreement. LC is definitely the way to go to lower triglycerides, particularly if your ratio is bad when compared with HDL. Taking JM at his word and assuming his diet in fact accords with LCHF, his numbers are worrying; perhaps we are all in need of more statin therapy, as governments have recommended. To the extent that he may have particular genetic issues, there is not much we can do about that. However, to the extent that the problem MAY be LCHF-related, this is for sure quite a significant issue for all of us. Incidentally, I really don't understand how this issue failed to make it into the discussion during JM's recent interview of Dayspring.
Doc, any thoughts on this? What do you make of Dr. Dayspring's lipoprotein assertions? Do you use NMR or APO testing with your patients or is that something that's not done yet in Sweden? Dayspring insists that these will be the "standard" in the future and that current lipid profiling is pretty useless, apart from HDL/triglyceride numbers.
Thanks for your efforts.
- moreporkpleasePoor Dayspring! He's had the world's shortest 15 minutes of fame until his ideas about advanced testing and particle count were just destroyed by JAMA.
Please read: Lipid-Related Markers and Cardiovascular Disease Prediction JAMA. 2012;307(23):2499-2506 - this concluded that replacement of total cholesterol and HDL-C with apolipoproteins or their ratios was not associated with improved cardiovascular (CV) risk prediction.
- Jen,
I'm sure you enjoy your paid speaking gigs, cruises and plane rides. And I'm sure this parade which you have run to the front of will make you quite rich before you're through. But you don't have to act like a dick in the process.
I'm not very interested in getting rich, I'm interested in making change. If you don't believe me consider this: I have made ZERO dollars so far from this blog, my international talks or YouTube-videos. Everything is commercial free.
People seem to like you. No one was unkind enough to mention that your AHS talk added nothing at all. I mean that literally -- I don't believe that anyone in that room heard anything in that talk they didn't already know. That's a little embarrassing, when even Tucker Max brought new ideas to AHS.
Too bad you didn't like it. I guess I'll just have to comfort myself with the fact that it's by far the most viewed talk from AHS (over 150,000 times as of now) and that Boyd Eaton, the father of the Paleo movement, thought it was the best talk of the conference.
- Jen,
No worries!I apologize if some of my posts seem condescating to ordinary Americans. That's not my intention. I think most obese people in the western world are simply victims of bad advice and a toxic (high-sugar-and-starch) food environment.
- Bill42Hi Doc,
It would be interesting to know the nationality of "Big Joe", the Largest Man in The World (1903), and what he used to eat.
I'll bet it wasn't LCHF....
I'm sure countries other than the US had obesity back then.
- Bill42OK, it appears "Big Joe Grimes" was from Cincinnati....
- FrankGI really don't see this as just another "bash the USA" post. I saw it as reflective of how our values have changed.
Like it or not the USA has enjoyed superpower status since it took over from the UK following WWII. Its policies have global reach... food policies, foreign policies, even foreign aid has an affect on what and how the rest of the World eats.
That superpower status is no longer as strong as it was: with the China, India and other Asian countries fast outpacing "The West". BUT China etc... are still modelling their food production policies and eating guidelines on the USA. Big Mac and Coca Cola are literally everywhere... as is cheap corn. It seems that as countries develop they want to eat more like the US!
Coca Cola apparently has a better supply chain into remote African villages than do medicines... http://www.ted.com/talks/melinda_french_gates_what_nonprofits_can_lea...
The cheap, subsidised USA export corn often comes with economic ramifications for those developing countries which cannot compete to grow their own food... this can lead to a poverty cycle and even poorer quality eating choices... all as a result of USA policies.
Perhaps then we can talk about massive multinational USA based such as Monsanto and their growing strangle-hold on the Worlds agriculture.
I don't mean to be harsh and I have nothing personal against the fabulous folks from the USA... several of whom I count as friends, but this is really not a case of "unless you live in the US, mind your own business"
- LauraI really don't think this (or any psot on this site) was intended to insult Americans in any way. It seems to me it is just making the point that something that was very unusual extraordinary almost a circus attraction in the past (and really it does not matter where big Joe is from) it is much more common on our streets today. That policeman happens to be American but he could be from anywhere.
It is a photo that is making the rounds at the moment as I have seen it on other sites. America is leading on obesity but also on the counterattack and has really motivated people to question their food choices. Not only the image is not judgemental of a nation but it also not making any judgment on the individuals it portrays....shame that things are taken so badly..reading teh posts in this particular thread is like walking on a battle field after the battle.I for one had previously made a comment on Jimmy Moore unusual large size in a recent photo of him (not knowing anything about him or how big he was etc) and even Mary VErnon or Loren Cordain don't seem as slim as one would expect. I understand that even on the strictest paleo/lchf one is only as thin as one can be especially at these times of incredible food abundance and I msut admit weight has been creeping on me also: I have put on an icnredible 12 pounds in less than 3 months even though I am strict paleo. After three months of blissful steady weight (Jan to March) I was faced with stress (health problems in the family) and probably added new paleo foods such as nuts especially whole coconut and some dark >70% chocolate and avocados for comfort and here I am. Probably my colleagues to whom I have advertised my new life style quite liberally also think I should be thinner but it can happen to the best of us really. So I feel bad for criticising others when you never know where this journey will take you. I am now seriously trying to get into ketosis so we shall see if I can re-set the system again and lose the recently gained weight. Each time I am a little bit stricter. But I am determined!
- mezzoNuts are an excellent food but they are very nourishing - and I find it quite easy to eat quite a lot of them within a short time. Some people up their metabolism when they eat more than the need. Other - me among them - obviously do not. If I eat more than I need, my body converts it to fat. I may not like this but there it is. Unfortunately eating paleo is no guarantee for a slim body. Neither is LCHF or Low-Carb.
- Ulf-jansson
- LauraMezzo
Indeed!..yes that is the other thing it is very hard for me to stop eating nuts once I start..really this happens a lot with food of plant origin. I wonder why.
I am intrigued by teh possibility ( mentioned in previous post) that different fats are differentially fattening. SOme evidence for this comes from an experiment in rats done in Switzerland some time ago (reference Metabolism 1995 vol 44 p273-279). They placed some lab rats on a calorie restricted diet until they got thin then divided them into groups and fed them diets rich in a certain type of fat (Nut oils, animal lard, dairy fat etc)unique to each group and looked how long it took to the rats to regain body weight and how much of that weight came back as body fat versus lean mass. It turns out that at least in rats nut oils (polyunsaturated fats) are the most fattening. Animal fats (which are a mixture of PUFA, MUFA, and SATs) are less fattening. So the more saturated the fat the less fattening so cononut oil and even cocoa bean butter should be the least fattening....if the same applies to humans (although I do expect this to be somewaht species specific) then this could explain why nuts are fattening more than animal fats....I shall continue investigate this as I think it is important! Nuts availability would have been very limited and very dependent on season and latitude and possibly knowledge of the trees their edibility..so I think nuts must be the hyperpalatable food of the paleo and for me best avoided...sigh! - Wade HendersonGoing by the posts and that photo, one might arrive at the wrong conclusion.
Take a look at the following from a news investigation that studied public records of police height and weight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thirteen percent of the over 550 Sacramento (Cal) Police offcers were either obese or morbidly obese.The highest BMI we found for a Sacramento Police officer was 37 -- that officer is five-foot-nine and weighs 250 pounds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Meaning 87% of the officers had a BMI under of 29.9 or less.I might add that a few of the muscle types can have a BMI over 30 and still be extremely fit.
The football player types.
Thus, I doubt that more than 10% are actually both obese and unfit.Granted, 1 in 10 is too high, but the stereotype seems to have gotten out of hand here.
BTW, many police officers do mostly desk duty in the later years of their career.
- JazzicalI didn't read all comments, but I saw alot of carbphobia and Atkins mentality. I believe it does work, being low carb, but I'm very sure that it is NOT healthy. Excess fat and proteins are the direct/indirect cause or all kinds of diseases. People just have to understand that they should get natural carbs, no refined sugar, and no grains either, except maybe rice, but no pasta, donuts, etc.. There's a lifestyle called 80/10/10 (80% carbs, 10% protein, 10% fat) and that will make all the carbphobics running away screaming, but it seem to work too, and possibly better (I haven't been following it myself tho', but doing my own combination of various diets) ...I think it's because when people eat excess protein and fats, then it's possibly true that extra carbs on top of that will make them gain weight.... but the 80/10/10 seem to be restricting themself to the minimum amount of protein and fat that the body needs, so it like the body just use all th excess carbs as direct energy, not being stored as fat.. some may say they are nonstop sugarrush but that's probably not true, since natural fruit sugars, eaten whole, doesn't mess up insulin etc.. just don't drink soda, no candy, etc.. only real whole foods.. raw foods.. that might be important too.. cooked food is like predigesting the food, so that you can eat more ...basicly if you HAVE to cook a food before you eat it, then you should think about not eating that food at all...
- chuckDid anyone notice the old guy looks healthier is many ways than the young guy?
Check the thighs and the size of the gut. They have very different metabolisms with the young guy having more of a sugar driven metabolic syndrome and the older one looking more like the glycogen is stored in muscle.
I think the old guy is more unique and really a special case and the young cop reflecting the current epidemic
122
Stuff like soda is NOT food at all period. Processed food full of HFCS is NOT food.
Unless people understand this they will keep saying oh...low carb is too restrictive... yeah right it is... it restricts you to FOOD. I wish people at least knew the truth. If they continue to eat crap then I have no problem with it. However, in america people keep saying that obesity is some super complex problem that has no cure or has some genetic factors etc or that it is all about exercise. If you eat the SAD diet then only 8 hours of exercise a day might just help you. If you eat LCHF you will drop to your normal weight with little or no exercise. I am not surprised at how high obesity is. I am surprised at how resilient the human body is because judging by the crap people eat... obesity rates should be 100%.